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Remember Elisa Lam? Well, she's still posting...

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Comments

  • Welcome Archon. One of the others who studies Elisa Lam will discuss with you no doubt soon.  It is fascinating.

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • Ty rosie
    There is only one way
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    edited December 2014
    I feel whe need to know the bottem of this story, it just doesnt add upp, and i m from the netherlands so far far away!
    Welcome to the forums, Archon. Glad you joined us and added your perspective to this very bizarre situation.

    I also noticed your observation, that Elisa seemed to copy a great deal from other blogs. At times, it's difficult to know what's actually her original writing, and what she's copy and pasted from elsewhere. If you visit her Instagram, it's the same thing - everything is (presumedly) taken from somewhere else. She leaves notes as well, but are they hers? Some seem to be.

    I've read through the entirety of her blogspots, and I've noticed two curiosities that really stand out:

    (a) Not one place shows an actual photo of her, except a pair of legs, that may or may not be hers.
    (b) In some places on the blogs, she shares a photo, but the image had since been mysteriously removed, or the link to it is broken.

    In fact, try looking for Elisa Lam's photos anywhere - you'll only get the same handful of photos repeated, the ones used in the news. A bit strange in the social media age.

    Archon, have you drawn any conclusions as to what may have happened to her, or if she even existed at all?
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt, thank you for having me!

    I really havent got a conclusion about anything. I do find it strange that girl could climb up a ladder or fire esape being under influence of a drug. Then walk around the building next to the watertanks climb up via a ladder and then having the strength tot lift twenty kilo's or more lid that was on the tank, climb in and then remove clothes because they are to heavy to swim with. I believe there could be foulplay in people who wanted to kill her and knew they could be filmed in the elovator. I am thinking girl is falling in love with a guy she met on the internet and flies there to meet him. Her parents were not informed, so she did this secretly because parents might not agree to such a meeting. Arriving at the hotel they play a childish hide and seek to lure her on the roof or stairway then convincing her to go on the roof, which instagram revealed was a place she liked, they have intercourse and he want to go for a skinny dip in the watertank lets her go in first and then he closes the lid... A psycho who may not or may do want to replay the movie black water.

    If you see the videoclip she is trying to hide on various levels in the building, the lift won t close, she thinks of a new strategy to win hide and seek and carefully looks around the corner. No one there... She waits no sound, and starts looking in the mirror, she is very convident this hide and seek is only playing. Then she is getting annoyed and starts yelling for the person who has to look for her. Which i think is a guy elisa has great feelings for. She enters the elevator once more and starts ramming on every button, she decides to move out of the elevator and moves away cause she hears someone calling her or maybe the hider ( elisa) is starting to get annoyed and decides to seek her lover and with that her demise.

    No drugs no mental issue but falling in the hand of a crazy person, that what i believe happened. If you take her blog seriously and read it she isn t the person to do drugs or be irresponsible, but she could be a girl, based on the blog entries, who could be madly in love and falsely led to the hotel en killed.

    Proove no, but for me it explains her body language, the reason she is in the tank. ( with help) and why there was no struggle. I have to read the autopsy report i am going to do this tonight.
    There is only one way
  • I see she first rams on all the buttons and the is waving her arms so weird. But that doesnt make a difference, she is there being meaby a bit trying to trigger a reaction from the seeker by yelling: are you going to try to find me ? The waving of the arms suggest she is asking something, after she that she is counting on her fingers like: i am going to count to three and then i want a reaction!! 1, 2, 3! And no reaction or there is one cause she is walking away. In my opinion the lift was not a goal at it self but a way yo play the game. The lift was not to go somewhere but to hide, but the stupid thing didnt work cause she accidently pushed the hold button. The person who she is yelling at knows she will eventually come back to this floor. And maybe he was waiting for her to follow him.
    There is only one way
  • Maybe it s just the age difference between foto's. And Matt i really concur with you on the missing foto's or links or even posts on her blog. Maybe someone got the password for her blog and deleted them, maybe someone who doesnt want to be on the blog, he gets the password and now he can make his move... Could it be?
    There is only one way
  • If Elisa caught a plane her name should be on a flightlist. Also wouldn't the water be a bit chilly to try to deliberately swim in?  Would anyone willingly go in a tank unless there is an internal ladder both in and out?
    (Maybe there is - I haven't studied this)

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • Well if youre really fancy someone you might
    There is only one way
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Well if youre really fancy someone you might
    Let me know what you think after reading the autopsy report. I've read it myself, but would like to hear what you have to say first in order to add to my perspective of it.

    I'm in complete agreement with you that drugs don't seem like the culprit; she seems (at least to me) in full control of herself. However, she does act pretty strangely at certain times, but since the security footage we were shown was heavily edited, we're missing context.

    However, as you'll find in the autopsy report, her clothes were actually found inside the tank with her, meaning that either (a) she undressed inside the tank, or (b) her clothes were thrown in after her, and it was a surprise situation. But then that brings up another possibility, that she didn't die immediately - she could have been trapped inside that tank for days, screaming for help. Since no one goes up there, no one would ever know she was there. Truly terrifying.

    Of course, this assumes she was a real person and all of this happened. We still don't know that for sure.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    If Elisa caught a plane her name should be on a flightlist. Also wouldn't the water be a bit chilly to try to deliberately swim in?  Would anyone willingly go in a tank unless there is an internal ladder both in and out?
    (Maybe there is - I haven't studied this)
    She absolutely should be on a flight list - that's something I hadn't thought of. I wonder how we could find out what airline she took, and when exactly?
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • I don t understand why she has scares on her knees, and why she bleeds from below ( her bottem). Igoogled drowning and i couldnt find that bleeding around the rectum is a result from drowning. Someone want to explain?
    There is only one way
  • I mean thats the first strange things i think is in the autopsy report
    There is only one way
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    I don t understand why she has scares on her knees, and why she bleeds from below ( her bottem). Igoogled drowning and i couldnt find that bleeding around the rectum is a result from drowning. Someone want to explain?
    I assumed the scars were pre-existing from her past, since they were cuts and not fresh scars.

    As for the bleeding, I thought that to be because of decomposition of the body since she was (supposedly) in the water tank for months. I can't be sure of any of this though, since all I have to go on is their report.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • She only was in the tank for three weeks. 
    Also the report states she had to few blood to see if sha had drugs in her blood. So she still can have used some. 
    Still what is was saying before still can be true a guy she falls in love with and he drowns her after inviting her into the tank. 
    There is only one way
  • mrpops09_CMOD_mrpops09_CMOD_ Chief Moderator
    She only was in the tank for three weeks. 
    Also the report states she had to few blood to see if sha had drugs in her blood. So she still can have used some. 
    Still what is was saying before still can be true a guy she falls in love with and he drowns her after inviting her into the tank. 
    I could see that happening 
    Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Interesting, I always thought she was in the tank longer for some reason. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Also police report states there was to few blood to say if there was drugs involved. I still cant find out why they say so quick she drowned by accident and use the bipolar argument???
    There is only one way
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Also police report states there was to few blood to say if there was drugs involved. I still cant find out why they say so quick she drowned by accident and use the bipolar argument???
    I agree, the autopsy report leaves a lot to be desired.

    Have you checked out how the security footage has been edited? What do you think of that?
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • I used welbutrin like elisa did i dont know the other medicens but welbutrin will not make you behave as desribed by the officer as weird.

    I think the report the detective has written about her weird behaviour is not real evidence for her being going insane that night but now all of a sudden we all suppose to believe it is from a bipolar condition. I dont believe this so quick i am curious on witnesses who saw elisa and what their stories are. The autopsie report states she drwoned, well okay but maybe someone convinced her to go into the tank and then left her there all alone. Rape shows bruises on genitalia; consentual sex doesnt

    Like i described the supposed weird behaviour can easily be described as calling her friend and counting till her friend reacts.

    There is someone walking this planet who comitted foul play, i like to really know which people were interviewed by police. there must be lists of guests who stayed the same period elisa did, what did they see? This might be police work gone bad!
    There is only one way
  • Does anyone know if any witnesses reports excist?
    There is only one way
  • Matt you mean the security footage witch was to quickly played i saw that one yes
    There is only one way
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    That's a really interesting notion, Archon - I didn't really take into account that drowning / dissolving someone in water would actually hide a great deal of abuse. It would be a good way to hide someone and the wrongdoing done to them. 

    I know of no witness reports, but I haven't looked deeply into that. There have been witness testimonies, such as from the bookshop owner where Elisa apparently visited, etc. I don't know if they're compiled all in one place. If you're able to find such material, definitely share it with us here. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • I find this story disturbing and facinating at the same time!


    Reading her blog- i came across this

    There is always the hope you run into someone IRL who has common sense and who isn't a douche and is awesome as the people you come across on tumblr. Until then I am on the tumblr in my happy place. Maybe one day I will make a real human connection on tumblr and gasp meet in real life? I prefer avoiding reality and just lurking (no chance of being disappointed)

    I think she met up with someone, if she exists at all!

    Matt- whats your take on why she's made up?
  • Shearer i think so too
    There is only one way
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    I find this story disturbing and facinating at the same time!


    Reading her blog- i came across this

    There is always the hope you run into someone IRL who has common sense and who isn't a douche and is awesome as the people you come across on tumblr. Until then I am on the tumblr in my happy place. Maybe one day I will make a real human connection on tumblr and gasp meet in real life? I prefer avoiding reality and just lurking (no chance of being disappointed)

    I think she met up with someone, if she exists at all!

    Matt- whats your take on why she's made up?
    Simply put, it feels like her identity was coopted for some sort of other purpose, much like the Christopher Dorner situation (which happened at the very same time, strangely). It's not so much that there are glaring reasons for her not to exist (aside from her peculiar name and its relation to the TB test), but there is almost no evidence that she does. No tangible online evidence. No photos. Blogs that update themselves for months after she's supposedly deceased. Family members acting erratically online. Stuff like that is highly curious.

    Take for instance the person who commented just a few up who registered on this forum for the specific purpose to tell us we were all wrong, that she existed, and that she definitely died. No sources, no returned comments, nothing. Disappeared as quickly as they came. Why go to all that effort? It's just strange. The media said she had a huge funeral, about 50 people or more - but where are they all? None of them are talking? No book deals? Nothing? It's just difficult to believe. We've discovered here in the past that where there's effort in peddling a narrative, there's usually something being covered up. 

    But what? And why? Who gained from Elisa's death? Who would gain from creating a persona and virtually murdering her? These are questions I seek answers for. 

    We should keep in mind that creating a perspective is one of the easiest things to do in the world. Just because she resembles a young asian woman who's in college, doesn't mean she's not a CIA analyst on whom they tossed a graduation gown and snapped some shots. Smiles and still photos are great story tellers. None of us have seen a single shred of evidence that he lived or died, or even went through the motions of life. All we're being fed are headlines, which in themselves are foundations for very little.

    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • I cam across a dutch website where they said there was no fluid in Lisa's lungs? Anybody know something about this?
    There is only one way
  • Lets talk about what are the facts: we see a asian woman wearing men medium short pants orange blouse acting weird in lift. There was a bodie found. And we have pictures of a woman one with glasses and in the lift no glasses. These persons don t even look alike. Which facts are there more? There was an autopsy report from someone, there was ablack sweet water in the hotel. And later there was tbc where the antidode was called lam lisa. What else?
    There is only one way
  • Rosie_MOD_Rosie_MOD_ Moderator
    edited December 2014
    Doesn't no fluid in lungs indicate she wasn't breathing when thrown into water?  no drowning.

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Doesn't no fluid in lungs indicate she wasn't breathing when thrown into water?  no drowning.
    That's precisely what it means. Does the autopsy report also indicate that no water was found in the lungs? I completely missed that if so. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    edited December 2014
    Agreed, there are some peculiar differences in their appearances. However, it could be that in all the media photos, she's dressed up with makeup and is smiling. She's her regular self in the elevator. 

    -- According to a local witness, Elisa visited her bookshop frequently.
    -- Her clothes were found inside the water tank with her, and were therefore soaked.
    -- Her tumblr (her "life" as she called it) continued to update herself long after her death.
    -- Elisa and Christopher Dorner were involved in situations simultaneously. (I feel this may be important, but don't know why yet.)
    -- The security footage has been heavily edited, indicating there's more to be seen.
    -- Large funeral. Zero media coverage of it.
    -- No one has spoken out on Elisa's behalf, only friends of friends who "sort of" knew her. 
    -- Peculiarly, she was wearing lacy black panties and no bra, which is a strange choice of attire for running around a hotel. Or is it? 

    There's almost no other tangible evidence to go on because so little of it exists. 

    Question: Did they find her with contact lenses in her eyes? If not, did she remove them? Did any forensics teams find any lens cases or anything nearby? She's near sighted, which means she would have to wear glasses 24/7 pretty much, so she wouldn't be able to mess around like that without at least contacts. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    edited December 2014
    I found this interesting set of comments and observations left by a highly curious individual, which I'll give boundaries to with *'s:

    ***
    I was originally following this case very closely as it had all the elements of a mystery novel which I enjoy. I then, sometime during the course of waiting for the autopsy fell out of sync with the discussion and theories. It seemed the case had moved on and it was a long forgotten memory. Fast-forward to about 2 weeks ago, I came across Elisa's name again, and for some reason this time it stuck with me. I wanted to get to the bottom of what had happened with all the information that has been released since the time of her death. I have read mostly every forum on Websleuths and elsewhere (even the Chinese discussion forums in translate to see if there was any different theories than the West had). Now, looking at the scope of all available information a few things have stuck out at me, that may not have when following the case day-by-day. 

    1) Morbid: Those who have accused Morbid as being linked to the death: I have found nowhere that confirms from an authority that he was present at the hotel at the same time as Elisa. I did see on his FB page that he was in LA at the time of her disappearance according to his uploads. Now, If he was present in the Cecil at this time, I can see how he plays as being a major POI. He has all the making of being the culprit as relating to his music and satanic worshiping. I went one step deeper into this and tried to find as much information i could on his now Wife also. This is where it starts to become weird to me. If you look into her history you will notice that she posts about "sacrificing" someone (a third person) for love on her FB page. Death, love and sacrifice are all focal points in her messages/ pictures. And when was the date she posted about another being sacrificed for love? hmmm.... about 1 week prior to Elisa's disappearance. Did Morbid sacrifice Elisa for his now Wife? Is that why they now have a newborn baby? Just some food for thought on that whole discussion.

    2) Why she was in LA: Speculation could go on forever about this. IMO it makes sense to stop in LA especially if she has never been there before and she is doing a West Coast tour. Who wouldn't stop by LA? The weird thing it wasn't in her initial itinerary that she informed her family about. Why would this be? My logic says it was probably to meet or do something that she did not want her family to know about (as it would probably be deemed unsafe) she may mention her intentions in the postcard to the friend? It could be related to a guy she was meeting or a place she was visiting or even both (which may be why the friend was alarmed over the postcard). 

    3) Cellphone: Where is the blackberry now? who has it? if it was a faithful citizen wouldn't they turn it into police or inform police that they found Elisas phone after all the news coverage? I mean, even if they are scum and sold it for a quick profit or used it as a throwaway phone they surely looked into all the information the cell had on it to find if they could leech more money out of it. It's a pretty big coincidence to me that the BB is lost shortly before her death. If i was planning on killing Elisa would i not want to take her lifeline out of her hands? would i not want to delete any conversations on social media and beyond that can trace back to me before I kill her? Do i not want to see what her plans are for the coming days and all her other information to be more clean with what i'm doing? If you look at it that way, she may have been targeted while she was in SD and followed to LA. She was actively pursuing meet ups with random strangers i'm sure to feel less lonely on her journey. 

    4) Her clothing: One major thing stands out to me, and I have not noticed much if any speculation about it. SHE WAS WEARING BLACK LACED CK PANTIES AND NO BRA. This was underneath men's basketball shorts and a Large T shirt (which would make comfy sleeping attire i'm sure). Why would she have these black laced panties on underneath the shorts? why not just wear the shorts by themselves if you're going to sleep? Was the black laced panties for a certain guy friend to see? as soon as she takes off her clothes that's all that she would be wearing... i mean she has no bra on. This to me, as someone in their late 20's myself spells out that she took off her daily attire and changed into this set of clothes to go meet a certain lucky someone. Why else would you wear black laced panties with no bra underneath shorts a T and a hoodie? If i was a female, I know i'd just be able to unzip my hoodie and the party would commence. 

    5) Autopsy report: IMO it was weighed as an accident due to the influence by police investigators and Elisa's apparent diagnosis of being bi-polar. I'm sure if you questioned all authorities on this matter that many would debate this finding. It's easy to shut a case like this when the evidence is so easily stacked in favor of closing a case.... why go through the trouble of having another unsolved murder ontop of all the resources they were expending to find that other guy in LA at the same time? A pretty nice hand for the LAPD.

    6) Her Sister: I haven't seen any comments regarding this, although it stuck out to me. If you do some searching, you will find she is now getting married, although that's not the weird part. If you look at her FB you would notice she maybe took about 1 month of posting on fb when Elisa's body was found, then she was back at it. The posts to me seem strange as they are all about her work and travel plans.... even a short month after the body was found. Now if this was my Sister, i doubt i'd be so excited to go to China for my business after all that had happened. Something doesn't sit well with me in regards to that. 

    7) Elevator Video: It's easy to make this the focal point of the investigation, and IMO it shouldn't be. It raises many more questions than it will answers until we can ever see an actual police report regarding other video etc. To me, it seemed she wanted to get away from the 14th floor, that is what i do know as fact. Why did she want to get away and from what? well.... that's the case right there. She didn't seem in initial terror, and she seemed to grow more frustrated as time elapsed. IMO she was in a cat and mouse game with a couple other people (who wouldn't let her go in peace). A couple other theories that crossed my mind.... Instead of drugs or supernatural presence what else could make her like that? was she hypnotized to do this? was her weird arm movements due to he person saying something like "you just woke up" and she is searching for her stuff on the table because she can't see in the dark? Is she actually PRETENDING to be on drugs? was she going to report sex she just had as a rape crime? and knew the elevator cameras would show her demeanor to help her case? Is that why she died? to be shut up from telling people about what happened?

    other questions: who was this boy with the tats? why has he never come forward saying it is not him and he has evidence of where he was and what he knew to support the case? What does her ex bf that she recently split up with have to say about all this? why was the roof not treated as a crime scene? Why did LE have no comment in regards to her cellphone? 

    IMO the night she went missing, she was involved with one or two other parties in a sexual way. Whatever happened to her was due to what transpired with those events. I would really like to know who responded to her meet up requests in the LA vicinity. Surely a friend must have mentioned it to another friend about meeting this girl at some point? Was it this musician she mentioned? Surely she didn't know much about him or his past if they only met twice as she had mentioned. He may have been a very sinister person. IMO the perp has been on that rooftop many times and is familiar with the staffs routines if not staff themselves... maybe related to a staff member? That would make sense as to having a Mexican and Italian stalker. All I can say with all the evidence at hand, all theories and info read, and somewhat of a well functioning brain... this was not an accident or a suicide.



    cliffs:
    - she was murdered
    ***

    He raises some excellent points. Where did her cell phone end up? What information did it contain? Was it ever found?
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Oh kay
    There is only one way
  • Tomorrow ill chk your post more thorrely
    There is only one way
  • Ok my brother died and I posted on Facebook..that means nothing.
    I think she is real, and I think she was meeting up with someone off the internet.
    I think she was lonely and I feel really sad for her.
    I need to research Christopher droned.
    Really weird about the TB test
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    edited December 2014
    Ok my brother died and I posted on Facebook..that means nothing.
    I think she is real, and I think she was meeting up with someone off the internet.
    I think she was lonely and I feel really sad for her.
    I need to research Christopher droned.
    Really weird about the TB test
    We're if we're asking ourselves the wrong question? Will the "Why?" or even the "How?" solve this mystery for us? What about: "To who's benefit?" Does anyone benefit from killing her if she exists? Does anyone benefit from creating her in the first place?
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Who was morbid? The post you placed, matt, is looking allot like my vision i posted earlier. But who is morbid and where is the fb of his wife?
    There is only one way
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Who was morbid? The post you placed, matt, is looking allot like my vision i posted earlier. But who is morbid and where is the fb of his wife?
    I honestly don't know the answers to those questions, since it was the first time I've heard of these two individuals as well. Maybe it's something we should look into? Apparently he goes by the name "Morbid", at least as far as I can tell.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Eh hello?
    There is only one way
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    I don't understand what you mean - I was stating that aside from his name being Morbid, I have no idea who he is, or who his wife supposedly is. I copied that information from someone else's comment. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Agreed we need to sort out who those people are Morbid and his wife. I found a link to the graveyard of elisa lam. But it still seems made up a bittish or not? Check it :

    http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=110876498
    There is only one way
  • This is a post about her elavator button pushing: i found it interesting.
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?200697-Chinese-Cantonese-Media-**Help!-Translations-Needed**
    There is only one way
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Agreed we need to sort out who those people are Morbid and his wife. I found a link to the graveyard of elisa lam. But it still seems made up a bittish or not? Check it :

    http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=110876498
    It actually seems that's a user-generated memorial page that someone created. I wonder - is she actually buried there? I feel the sudden urge to fly out there and find out. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    This is a post about her elavator button pushing: i found it interesting.
    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?200697-Chinese-Cantonese-Media-**Help!-Translations-Needed**
    So that means she was at the very top floor of the hotel, putting her really close to where she finally ended up (the 14th floor). 

    I wonder if the police dusted any of the security doors for fingerprints or anything to see if either Elisa's or person X's prints showed up. Actually, I wonder if they really did any investigating at all.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Indeed matt, indeed
    There is only one way
  • I still want to get to know the witnesses in the hotel or who saw her in LA
    There is only one way
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    I know of only one, the bookstore owner, whose name currently escapes me. Come to think about it, I haven't heard of a single other witness, although that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any others.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • If she was staying at the hotel there should be a few at the very least staff.  Shouldn't there be security film of everywhere in the hotel if there was cctv monitoring her in the lift. That is normal.

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    If she was staying at the hotel there should be a few at the very least staff.  Shouldn't there be security film of everywhere in the hotel if there was cctv monitoring her in the lift. That is normal.
    There should be, yes. But they (the LAPD) won't show us any for some curious reason. That entire period was full of the LAPD doing strange things.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Lam elisa .... Weird enough
    There is only one way
  • Nothing to report, this weekend i ll. Try todove in it again!
    There is only one way
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Sounds good. The only new leads / opportunities right now:

    (1) "Morbid" and his wife, unless it's just some conspiracy nonsense.
    (2) The whereabouts of Elisa's cell phone.
    (3) Elisa's flight record and itinary. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Agreed
    There is only one way
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Interesting, both the facebook and youtube accounts of this "Morbid" individual have been closed.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Precisely the type of fellow all the young girls get all screamy for.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Here's what I found odd, that no one else seemed to notice:

     

    1.  The buttons for the floors in the elevator are at the very bottom?  I have never seen an elevator with buttons that low.  Is it possible she was making it so the doors would stay open (which you can do in elevators for emergency purposes)?

    2.  If someone was indeed after her, off camera, why stay in the elevator??  Especially with the doors not closing?  I'd get the hell out of there. 

    I think the video is a smokescreen for something, but I don't know what.

    Also, it was confirmed she was bipolar.  Whether this had anything to do with her death, I don't know.

  • Susan,lisa possibly pushed the hold button per accident. If someone is after her, that person is furi g the video in hiding; cause at the end of the clip she is moving away slowly, or attentively.. So she sees no one. (She waeres no glasses, but i think she would notice a person) i believe in a smokescreen aswell, or it might be a murdercase which got unnoticed and unrevealed. In the last case i hope to help to solve the puzzle.
    There is only one way
  • Rosie_MOD_Rosie_MOD_ Moderator
    edited December 2014
    Welcome SusanW75. You are right the buttons do appear extra low,  so do the metal sides part and also the interior floor looks tiny. Is it because the view from the camera is warped and she has been magnified in some way.  I couldn't see whether she is wearing her glasses while she's pressing the buttons.  Do her hand movements outside the lift indicate she is trying to see as her steps are very exact.  It's almost as if the camera taking the movie is way above the normal height of the ceiling of the  lift.

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • I meant during and not f uri g sorry
    There is only one way
  • When she stands against the metal side part the perspective is more normal as per this video.

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • Video showing Time Stamp discrepancies.

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator

    Here's what I found odd, that no one else seemed to notice:

     

    1.  The buttons for the floors in the elevator are at the very bottom?  I have never seen an elevator with buttons that low.  Is it possible she was making it so the doors would stay open (which you can do in elevators for emergency purposes)?

    2.  If someone was indeed after her, off camera, why stay in the elevator??  Especially with the doors not closing?  I'd get the hell out of there. 

    I think the video is a smokescreen for something, but I don't know what.

    Also, it was confirmed she was bipolar.  Whether this had anything to do with her death, I don't know.

    Welcome to the forums, Susan. I'm glad you've joined us.

    So you feel the security video is to distract us? As in, distract us away from what really happened to Elisa, or distract us as in Elisa's whole story being a fairy tale while something else went on in LA?
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • I reckon the video is speeded up to make her movements appear more bizarre than they are. (aka keystone cops style)

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • None of it makes sense.  No quotes from family members or friends (that I know of).  There should have cameras in the hallway too, where is that footage?  I personally think she committed suicide.  How she opened the water tank though is still a mystery to me...
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    None of it makes sense.  No quotes from family members or friends (that I know of).  There should have cameras in the hallway too, where is that footage?  I personally think she committed suicide.  How she opened the water tank though is still a mystery to me...
    Have you had a chance to read the autopsy report? There are a few mysterious items of information there as well, such as her clothes being thrown in with her inside the tank. 

    Have you investigated these family ties at all?
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt thats what i think we should do try to track family behaviour on this. They too would want to get to the bottem of this!
    There is only one way

  • David and Yinna Lam Thats the parents name
    There is only one way
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    The last I heard about them they were filing some sort of lawsuit against the hotel. If I'm also not mistaken, there was some sort of movie deal / script sale based on what happened to Sony pictures by two writers, although I'm not sure if the family gave their approval or not.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • marleysworldmarleysworld Member
    edited December 2014
    IMO there are 2 theories for this. Either she was murdered, or she killed herself. 

    If she was murdered, I definitely think it was by someone she knew, or at least thought she knew. Both theories tie in together so I might aswell explain them all in one. She was an avid tumblr user, yes? She spoke, on her blogspot especially, about having more internet friends than "real life" friends, and she often expressed how unhappy she was about this; she needed comforting, and felt that her tumblr friends were of better use than her real life friends. It seems she used tumblr and her blogspot to express how depressed she was. http://etherfields.blogspot.nl/2012/03/lazy.html  ("I believe the biggest reason why I got depressed") Despite her family's constant claims she wasn't mentally ill/unstable, her blogspot shows significant signs of depression. Not even signs, she just flat out says she's depressed. Maybe the depression went alongside another disorder? It's not rare, and I've seen comments saying there's a possibility she was bipolar? I haven't gone through her tumblr yet, it just seems morbid and strange if I'm being honest, but her blog definitely points towards her being this vulnerable, depressed girl looking for a shoulder to cry on. What if someone decided to prey (I don't even know how else to explain it) on her? She's weak, she's desperate for someone to care for her and tell her everything's going to be okay. It's unlikely, but it's likely all the same.  There's a possibility this person could be using another person's pictures, but Elisa seemed clever. Not the type to meet up with someone without really being able to validate that they are who they say they are. ( http://etherfields.blogspot.nl/2011/11/on-being-no-name-blogger-using-her-real.html) Say she's fell in love with this person, and she's desperate to meet them. She may have left this out of her itinerary that she shared with her family because they would've disapproved. Hell, who wouldn't? It's dangerous and quite stupid, but she wanted to do it and she lied about it. This could explain the missing cellphone, as it contains messages between the pair and the murderer needs them gone. Anyway, so say she meets up with this person, and they're everything she wasn't expecting. This could also explain the pants but no bra. A bit of fun with the person she thought she loved gone wrong? They become this monster she wasn't prepared for? There's like 100 other things that could've happened between meeting them and the elevator fiasco. He's (lets say it's a he) drugged her, hence why she's acting the way she is. She's running away from him, he's turned nasty and she has to get away - her animated hand movements could be a conversation with someone unrelated, explaining what's happened. Maybe they've kept their mouth closed because they don't want him to come for them next? I'm reaching here but whatever. The person she's talking to could even be him, and he's pretending to understand her problem with him in order to lure her back to the hotel room before he strikes? 0:30 could be her seeing him? 

    The other theory is suicide. She was depressed. Her blogspot shows she also felt very under pressure with school commitments, she dropped out of all her courses and didn't manage to get through the term without having a breakdown. She speaks on trust issues, betrayal and constantly feeling like she's disappointing people. Could the reason her family/friends are so silent be because they feel like they triggered this? Could they have said something when she rang home that upset her enough to the point where she just didn't care anymore. She  could be high on something, I saw a comment saying there are certain drugs that won't show up in an autopsy? Anyway, she could've stripped down before she got into the tank, thrown away the phone. Seems like she could've done anything and LAPD would completely disregard it. 
    http://etherfields.blogspot.nl/2011/11/depression-sucks.html#more

    Has anyone read up on the history of Cecil hotel? It's crazy I swear.


  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    edited December 2014
    IMO there are 2 theories for this. Either she was murdered, or she killed herself. 

    If she was murdered, I definitely think it was by someone she knew, or at least thought she knew. Both theories tie in together so I might aswell explain them all in one. She was an avid tumblr user, yes? She spoke, on her blogspot especially, about having more internet friends than "real life" friends, and she often expressed how unhappy she was about this; she needed comforting, and felt that her tumblr friends were of better use than her real life friends. It seems she used tumblr and her blogspot to express how depressed she was. http://etherfields.blogspot.nl/2012/03/lazy.html  ("I believe the biggest reason why I got depressed") Despite her family's constant claims she wasn't mentally ill/unstable, her blogspot shows significant signs of depression. Not even signs, she just flat out says she's depressed. Maybe the depression went alongside another disorder? It's not rare, and I've seen comments saying there's a possibility she was bipolar? I haven't gone through her tumblr yet, it just seems morbid and strange if I'm being honest, but her blog definitely points towards her being this vulnerable, depressed girl looking for a shoulder to cry on. What if someone decided to prey (I don't even know how else to explain it) on her? She's weak, she's desperate for someone to care for her and tell her everything's going to be okay. It's unlikely, but it's likely all the same.  There's a possibility this person could be using another person's pictures, but Elisa seemed clever. Not the type to meet up with someone without really being able to validate that they are who they say they are. ( http://etherfields.blogspot.nl/2011/11/on-being-no-name-blogger-using-her-real.html) Say she's fell in love with this person, and she's desperate to meet them. She may have left this out of her itinerary that she shared with her family because they would've disapproved. Hell, who wouldn't? It's dangerous and quite stupid, but she wanted to do it and she lied about it. This could explain the missing cellphone, as it contains messages between the pair and the murderer needs them gone. Anyway, so say she meets up with this person, and they're everything she wasn't expecting. This could also explain the pants but no bra. A bit of fun with the person she thought she loved gone wrong? They become this monster she wasn't prepared for? There's like 100 other things that could've happened between meeting them and the elevator fiasco. He's (lets say it's a he) drugged her, hence why she's acting the way she is. She's running away from him, he's turned nasty and she has to get away - her animated hand movements could be a conversation with someone unrelated, explaining what's happened. Maybe they've kept their mouth closed because they don't want him to come for them next? I'm reaching here but whatever. The person she's talking to could even be him, and he's pretending to understand her problem with him in order to lure her back to the hotel room before he strikes? 0:30 could be her seeing him? 

    The other theory is suicide. She was depressed. Her blogspot shows she also felt very under pressure with school commitments, she dropped out of all her courses and didn't manage to get through the term without having a breakdown. She speaks on trust issues, betrayal and constantly feeling like she's disappointing people. Could the reason her family/friends are so silent be because they feel like they triggered this? Could they have said something when she rang home that upset her enough to the point where she just didn't care anymore. She  could be high on something, I saw a comment saying there are certain drugs that won't show up in an autopsy? Anyway, she could've stripped down before she got into the tank, thrown away the phone. Seems like she could've done anything and LAPD would completely disregard it. 
    http://etherfields.blogspot.nl/2011/11/depression-sucks.html#more

    Has anyone read up on the history of Cecil hotel? It's crazy I swear.


    Welcome to the forums, Marley. I'm really glad you joined us and took the time to contribute to this discussion. Forgive me for not having responded a bit sooner - we're on holiday hours here until New Year's so it's a bit slow going.

    Your analysis is fantastic, and touches upon a lot of items we've been trying to parcel out here amongst ourselves. Archon, another forum member, also strongly feels that this mysterious person with whom she was in love could be a suspect in her murder, that is if it was indeed a murder.

    Do you mind if I pose some questions for you? I'd really be interested in hearing your perspective on these things, since they've been gnawing at me and I just can't seem to figure them out on my own.

    (1) If she was murdered, why did the LAPD present a security tape that was so heavily and obviously edited?

    (2) If she was murdered by her boyfriend, where is the evidence of his existence? Where's his DNA on her other packed belongings? Where are his finger prints in her room? Did the hotel have no record of who checked in / out of the hotel around the time she went missing? 

    (3) Why didn't the police attempt to activate the GPS on her phone, or do any sort of tracking? Why is there no mention of anyone (family, friends, the police) having called her phone?

    (4) If she killed herself, why was she naked in the tank? Why were her clothes found inside the tank with her (according to the autopsy report)? Did she undress herself while attempting to swim inside the tank?

    (5) How did a tiny asian girl lift the giant tank lid? How did her boyfriend lift the tank lid on his own? How did he do that after carrying her body up several exterior building ladders, up the tank ladder, and without being noticed by anyone else?

    Ideas to consider:

    -- Was Elisa Lam not murdered by just one person, but by several people?
    -- Was one of these people close with the LAPD / important officials?
    -- Again I must ask, are we absolutely sure Elisa still even exists?

    You mentioned her blogs / tumblr, etc, and I'm glad you did. On top of all those other questions, what do you think about her tumblr updating itself long after she was dead?

    Looking forward to your answers, and I appreciate your time in answering them.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Mattt you should rest till january mate!! :)

    There is only one way
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Mattt you should rest till january mate!! :)

    We live in an era of action. *raises binoculars to horizon*
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Merry Christmas everybody!!
    There is only one way
  • Hope you're enjoying your Christmas Archon!

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Merry Christmas everybody!!
    Merry Christmas, Archon. Looking forward to your comments, posts and insights in 2015.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Hi, Im a newbie about elisa, but, I have some insights: 
    a) For me, the woman in the video its not Elisa
    b) surprisingly, shes is apparently dead since december 2012, check his tumblr account on december 2012
    c) The movements she make are very - very - theatrycal. Sorry, for the spelling, im italian.
    d) Apparently she says that she likes to wear black coats "when she walk at night", maybe shes still alive

    Regards 
  • Welcome engineer, it is good to have you on board as a new member. Look forward to hearing more about your ideas and anything else you are interested in.

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • hey thank you very much, ill post this on the main thread,I´ll edit it then with some analysis of the video
    Kind Regards
  • Hi, Im a newbie about elisa, but, I have some insights: 
    a) For me, the woman in the video its not Elisa
    b) surprisingly, shes is apparently dead since december 2012, check his tumblr account on december 2012
    c) The movements she make are very - very - theatrycal. Sorry, for the spelling, im italian.
    d) Apparently she says that she likes to wear black coats "when she walk at night", maybe shes still alive

    Regards 
  • thank you engineer, that's great!

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • There's a video showing her moves are somewhat speeded up in comparison with the original (also shown in the thread). In the slower one it almost looks as though she's having trouble seeing. Also the angle of the camera makes the lift buttons look extra low down on the lift wall.  Black coats aren't a good idea at night if you're crossing the road in traffic! LOL!

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • yup!, and when I saw this I really felt nausea, the picture found in her camera was actually not very new, and her quote of the pic (circa december 2012 -tumblr) .. But I think the entries are most "disturbing", for example, the so called pic, was on other "hostal" where she knew many people. Also, as the timeline has couts on the video, the facial structure is kindof different from Elisa "real face" . Many things to think about indeed
    image.jpg 95K
  • notice the quote on black on the pic not realeased by media, and entries. plus the cdc its somewhat known for make elisa tests and try experimental drugs for disseases
    image.jpg 71.1K
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    yup!, and when I saw this I really felt nausea, the picture found in her camera was actually not very new, and her quote of the pic (circa december 2012 -tumblr) .. But I think the entries are most "disturbing", for example, the so called pic, was on other "hostal" where she knew many people. Also, as the timeline has couts on the video, the facial structure is kindof different from Elisa "real face" . Many things to think about indeed
    Welcome, Engineer. I'm glad you've joined us on the website, and on this mystery!

    I've merged your other Elisa discussion with this one if you don't mind so that all the Elisa stuff can stay in one place.

    That picture of her in front of the mirror - whereabouts did you find that? Isn't it very strange that she's hiding her face? Is it really her? What do you think?
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • I hope nobody minds that I'm jumping into the discussion out of nowhere.  Funny, I saw something on Facebook, some Buzzfeed article or similar that contained the "Creepiest Unexplained Photos," that showed the EL story.  Something about it struck a chord with me and I've been obsessed and glued to my computer the last two days reading all sorts of theories and ideas regarding the case- including this one (can I just say also that this is the most intelligent discussion of the matter that I've seen on the whole interwebz!). 

    After my reading/research, I have some thoughts....
    In the elevator, Elisa is experiencing psychosis/or a psychotic break.  According to her autopsy/the police report, she was taking Dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine), Lamotrigine, Quetiapine, Pseudophedrine (Sinutab), Wellbutrin, and Venlafexine.  One of the side-effects of the Dexadrine and the Wellbutrin is psychosis and hallucinations.  Also, interestingly, a side effect of pseudophedrine when combined with other drugs is that it may play a role in episodes of paranoid psychosis and hallucinations.    Another thought I had was she possibly taking the psuedophedrine recreationally?  According to the police report, she only had 2 pills left.  I know this is a stretch, but we all know the role this drug has in the manufacture of meth.  When I was in 8th grade 13 years ago, I knew people who would buy cold medicine at the store and use it to get high (this is before regulations were put in place for buying it).  Was she possibly experiencing the hallucinogenic side effects of her drug cocktail whilst she was in the elevator?

    The problem with THAT part of my theory is the fact that toxicology revealed no drugs present in her system.  While I'm no medical expert, part of me thinks that a dead body decomposing in water for almost 20 days might have an effect upon how detectable drugs would be in said body, I will take it at face value and agree, "no, she hadn't taken anything."  SO, that being said, what happens when she DOESN'T take her meds as prescribed?  She was diagnosed with bipolar disorder.  Severe untreated cases of bipolar disorder can cause the individual to becoming psychotic, complete with paranoia, delusions, and hallucinations. 

    So, I believe she was hallucinating in the elevator.  Whether it was caused by the drugs she WAS taking, or the LACK of drugs I do not know, but I think it was one of the two that was contributing to her behavior in the elevator.  It's possible that whatever she was "seeing" was "beckoning" her OR, she felt like she was being pursued/chased by her hallucination.  That could explain why she was up on the 14th floor (I believe her room was on the 4th?) and why she ended up in the elevator.  In the elevator, first she tries to hide from what she's seeing, then decides to "fight" it (jump and hand motions), before deciding to continue to "run away" from it, ultimately going higher and ending up on the roof.

    Regarding how she got up on the roof, I think it's likely she used the fire escape.  Once on top of the roof, she climbs the ladder on the side of the tank.  Once at the top of the ladder, she opens the lid (or was it maybe already open- negligence of a hotel employee forgetting close it perhaps), strips off her clothing and throws it into the tank.  Once her belongings are in the tank, she climbs in after it.  The police report states that the tank was 1/2 to 3/4 full when her body was found.  It's likely then that it was full the night she climbed in, and that 1/4 to 1/2 of the water in the tank was used over the 18 days or so that she was missing.  If the tank was full when she climbed in, she would be near the top, which would allow her to reach out and pull the lid down over herself.  But that's where she makes her mistake- now with the lid closed and the tank full, there's probably only a couple inches between the top of the water and the top of the tank which would make it near impossible for her to hold her head above the water and breathe.  She probably struggled and attempted to push the lid open above her, but being nearly totally submerged, unable to see anything, and with gravity working against her she can't get it open and ultimately drowns.

    Even though my theory is probably the most logical and pretty much totally jibes with what the LAPD determined, there is still something that I find fishy surrounding this whole thing:

    The 54 seconds of missing elevator footage- What was in that 54 seconds that was deemed un-releasable?  And, why cut it out and then splice it with footage of the empty elevator that occurred after.  Why not just release up to the point where she leaves the elevator?  That would simplify the process and prevent anyone from ever noticing any footage was missing......

    Welp, that's all I got! 


  • Hello Katie,  wow if Elisa was taking all those various types of drugs it was only a matter of time anyway.

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • hey Matt, thank you very much, I'll try to do my best, I wish, like all of us, no other case like this happen again in LA or other places. 

    Well,this is my "two identity hypothesis" with some lateral thinking, even when every day I discover new things about the case: 

     The pic comes from an entry of her tumblr account. Some thoughts about what has been said until this point: 

    a) you can take the case from almost any angle and start deductions, I choosed for me the "coat pic" the first angle of my investigation. 

    b) as I started from there - and not from the video- I have (until now) not many assumptions. I have to say that as for this day, her accounts on social networks are kindof active (are really active at all?), but at the same time very erratic, even when I give almost 90% certainity that are real accounts of a person (but for what purpouse), but, as I assume that at least Elisa Lam was really a normal person (not an agent) I really dont know at this time if she has certain "moral" things "to be cover". 

    c) the most active, commented and linked posts and pics by her on internet, show all, since 2012, a tendency to structure a posible future crime or suicide. If you see the "drink me" pic above the "coat pic" or the "fish in an aquarium pic" one can see clearly that. From that perspective, of lateral thinking one can have this too:

    d) the video is a masterwork of fiction. Even LAPD said on interview that "actually, in the video, Elisa doesnt look like her facebook photos" so they actually "released the video, so the public at the Cecil Hotel can tell "how she looked like that night", among other more technical assumptions... then I think we are seeing another woman. 

    e) when I see the video, however, without technical analysis yet, I have that feeling of seeing a movie, you know, like when an actor never or ocasionally see at the camera, she never smiles (her dental structure could , definetly, exclude the nule hypotesis: "the person on the video its not Elisa")

     f) if one take the video off, then some things seems to have sense. Elisa maybe was sedated for something she ate, (but why?), and then she was deposited in the water storage tank, she gave her social accounts to someone else if they were active and linked to her smartphone (on the case she had one at the time). 

    Then one have a lateral thinking again...

    What if the young woman in the video is in fact a suspect? have we see that angle?. On other words: Why is she a perfect victim?, she never screams, not even open her mouth, so, why she dont want to talk, open her mouth or scream?. Even if she was a psychatric patient, well, what kind of psychiatric patient!, not even a small screm, not a single involvment of her mouth orbicular muscles. 

    What if she was doing some mimic to other suspect at the end of the corridor, because, after all, she cant scream either way being a victim (?), or being a suspect. What if she is saying "ok, the floor its clear, you can put the evidence in the storage water tank"

    The timestamps are equally less strange since this point of view. Its all about what way we will take to solve the puzzle. 

    g) the "coat pic", very strange, I really dont know if her face can be totally covered by her digital camera, nor who is really there, but what I can assume its that the pic its not edited, and by far its the only evidence we have to rule out "suicide". Kind regards to all
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    I hope nobody minds that I'm jumping into the discussion out of nowhere.  Funny, I saw something on Facebook, some Buzzfeed article or similar that contained the "Creepiest Unexplained Photos," that showed the EL story.  Something about it struck a chord with me and I've been obsessed and glued to my computer the last two days reading all sorts of theories and ideas regarding the case- including this one (can I just say also that this is the most intelligent discussion of the matter that I've seen on the whole interwebz!). 

    After my reading/research, I have some thoughts....
    In the elevator, Elisa is experiencing psychosis/or a psychotic break.  According to her autopsy/the police report, she was taking Dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine), Lamotrigine, Quetiapine, Pseudophedrine (Sinutab), Wellbutrin, and Venlafexine.  One of the side-effects of the Dexadrine and the Wellbutrin is psychosis and hallucinations.  Also, interestingly, a side effect of pseudophedrine when combined with other drugs is that it may play a role in episodes of paranoid psychosis and hallucinations.    Another thought I had was she possibly taking the psuedophedrine recreationally?  According to the police report, she only had 2 pills left.  I know this is a stretch, but we all know the role this drug has in the manufacture of meth.  When I was in 8th grade 13 years ago, I knew people who would buy cold medicine at the store and use it to get high (this is before regulations were put in place for buying it).  Was she possibly experiencing the hallucinogenic side effects of her drug cocktail whilst she was in the elevator?

    The problem with THAT part of my theory is the fact that toxicology revealed no drugs present in her system.  While I'm no medical expert, part of me thinks that a dead body decomposing in water for almost 20 days might have an effect upon how detectable drugs would be in said body, I will take it at face value and agree, "no, she hadn't taken anything."  SO, that being said, what happens when she DOESN'T take her meds as prescribed?  She was diagnosed with bipolar disorder.  Severe untreated cases of bipolar disorder can cause the individual to becoming psychotic, complete with paranoia, delusions, and hallucinations. 

    So, I believe she was hallucinating in the elevator.  Whether it was caused by the drugs she WAS taking, or the LACK of drugs I do not know, but I think it was one of the two that was contributing to her behavior in the elevator.  It's possible that whatever she was "seeing" was "beckoning" her OR, she felt like she was being pursued/chased by her hallucination.  That could explain why she was up on the 14th floor (I believe her room was on the 4th?) and why she ended up in the elevator.  In the elevator, first she tries to hide from what she's seeing, then decides to "fight" it (jump and hand motions), before deciding to continue to "run away" from it, ultimately going higher and ending up on the roof.

    Regarding how she got up on the roof, I think it's likely she used the fire escape.  Once on top of the roof, she climbs the ladder on the side of the tank.  Once at the top of the ladder, she opens the lid (or was it maybe already open- negligence of a hotel employee forgetting close it perhaps), strips off her clothing and throws it into the tank.  Once her belongings are in the tank, she climbs in after it.  The police report states that the tank was 1/2 to 3/4 full when her body was found.  It's likely then that it was full the night she climbed in, and that 1/4 to 1/2 of the water in the tank was used over the 18 days or so that she was missing.  If the tank was full when she climbed in, she would be near the top, which would allow her to reach out and pull the lid down over herself.  But that's where she makes her mistake- now with the lid closed and the tank full, there's probably only a couple inches between the top of the water and the top of the tank which would make it near impossible for her to hold her head above the water and breathe.  She probably struggled and attempted to push the lid open above her, but being nearly totally submerged, unable to see anything, and with gravity working against her she can't get it open and ultimately drowns.

    Even though my theory is probably the most logical and pretty much totally jibes with what the LAPD determined, there is still something that I find fishy surrounding this whole thing:

    The 54 seconds of missing elevator footage- What was in that 54 seconds that was deemed un-releasable?  And, why cut it out and then splice it with footage of the empty elevator that occurred after.  Why not just release up to the point where she leaves the elevator?  That would simplify the process and prevent anyone from ever noticing any footage was missing......

    Welp, that's all I got! 


    Welcome to the forums, Katie. I'm glad you joined us and took the time to write all this - it's probably the best drug/hallucination based explanation I've heard yet. All of it makes good sense as well, although, we would have to assume that the tank was open as you've suggested, simply because I imagine it would be too heavy for her to have lifted on her own. But then, how did she close it with zero traction on top of herself afterward?

    Of course, if she was on meth / PCP or who knows what else, strength likely wouldn't be a problem.

    I'm with you 100% on the edited security footage. Why would they do that, and then release it in such a state? I'm beginning to wonder if it's actually all from one day, or if they've sewn together multiple clips from multiple days, which is why it seems not to make sense.

    Nevertheless, great comment.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    hey Matt, thank you very much, I'll try to do my best, I wish, like all of us, no other case like this happen again in LA or other places. 

    Well,this is my "two identity hypothesis" with some lateral thinking, even when every day I discover new things about the case: 

     The pic comes from an entry of her tumblr account. Some thoughts about what has been said until this point: 

    a) you can take the case from almost any angle and start deductions, I choosed for me the "coat pic" the first angle of my investigation. 

    b) as I started from there - and not from the video- I have (until now) not many assumptions. I have to say that as for this day, her accounts on social networks are kindof active (are really active at all?), but at the same time very erratic, even when I give almost 90% certainity that are real accounts of a person (but for what purpouse), but, as I assume that at least Elisa Lam was really a normal person (not an agent) I really dont know at this time if she has certain "moral" things "to be cover". 

    c) the most active, commented and linked posts and pics by her on internet, show all, since 2012, a tendency to structure a posible future crime or suicide. If you see the "drink me" pic above the "coat pic" or the "fish in an aquarium pic" one can see clearly that. From that perspective, of lateral thinking one can have this too:

    d) the video is a masterwork of fiction. Even LAPD said on interview that "actually, in the video, Elisa doesnt look like her facebook photos" so they actually "released the video, so the public at the Cecil Hotel can tell "how she looked like that night", among other more technical assumptions... then I think we are seeing another woman. 

    e) when I see the video, however, without technical analysis yet, I have that feeling of seeing a movie, you know, like when an actor never or ocasionally see at the camera, she never smiles (her dental structure could , definetly, exclude the nule hypotesis: "the person on the video its not Elisa")

     f) if one take the video off, then some things seems to have sense. Elisa maybe was sedated for something she ate, (but why?), and then she was deposited in the water storage tank, she gave her social accounts to someone else if they were active and linked to her smartphone (on the case she had one at the time). 

    Then one have a lateral thinking again...

    What if the young woman in the video is in fact a suspect? have we see that angle?. On other words: Why is she a perfect victim?, she never screams, not even open her mouth, so, why she dont want to talk, open her mouth or scream?. Even if she was a psychatric patient, well, what kind of psychiatric patient!, not even a small screm, not a single involvment of her mouth orbicular muscles. 

    What if she was doing some mimic to other suspect at the end of the corridor, because, after all, she cant scream either way being a victim (?), or being a suspect. What if she is saying "ok, the floor its clear, you can put the evidence in the storage water tank"

    The timestamps are equally less strange since this point of view. Its all about what way we will take to solve the puzzle. 

    g) the "coat pic", very strange, I really dont know if her face can be totally covered by her digital camera, nor who is really there, but what I can assume its that the pic its not edited, and by far its the only evidence we have to rule out "suicide". Kind regards to all
    A fantastic comment and analysis. As you've suggested, when we work from other angles and don't start from the security video, other possibilities certainly emerge. However, I would like to propose a question then: if we rule out the security video, what physical evidence is there of Elisa Lam existing, let alone being murdered, at all? None of her social media sites have any pictures showing her real identity, and anyone could type those things and assemble the random photos and quips she presents. Some of those social media sites even continued updating after her death.


    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • mrpops09_CMOD_mrpops09_CMOD_ Chief Moderator

    Welp, that's all I got! 


    Welcome Katie, I'm with you 100%. I've thought it was drugs from the beginning. There was a time in my life where I did a lot of hallucinogens, and I have been around a lot of people "tripping". Her behavior is dead-on what I have seen in myself and others. 
    Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
  • Welcome to the forums, Katie. I'm glad you joined us and took the time to write all this - it's probably the best drug/hallucination based explanation I've heard yet. All of it makes good sense as well, although, we would have to assume that the tank was open as you've suggested, simply because I imagine it would be too heavy for her to have lifted on her own. But then, how did she close it with zero traction on top of herself afterward?

    Of course, if she was on meth / PCP or who knows what else, strength likely wouldn't be a problem.

    I'm with you 100% on the edited security footage. Why would they do that, and then release it in such a state? I'm beginning to wonder if it's actually all from one day, or if they've sewn together multiple clips from multiple days, which is why it seems not to make sense.

    Nevertheless, great comment.
    My thought process on her closing the lid behind her:
    I'm imagining the lid is a "flip top" type lid that is on a hinge that flips to the side/back when opened.  So I guess I thought she'd be treading water at the top and reaches out, gets a hand or arm behind the lid and is able to pull/swing it far enough for gravity to take over and it to fall into the closed position.  That being said, I do acknowledge that she'd have to be PRETTY quick to A) pull her hands/arms in fast enough to prevent them from being stuck between the the lid and the side of the tank rim, and B) duck her ENTIRE body under water/further into the tank to avoid the lid slamming down on her head....  We know it didn't because her body showed no signs of trauma.

    If the lid is the type that completely detaches, then my theory of her being the one who closes the lid from inside the tank doesn't really hold water (ba dum ch- pun intended).
    [DOES ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW THE TYPE OF LID THAT IS USED ON THE TANK?]

    Or....it could be as simple as....she never closes the lid.  She gets in there and drowns.  Afterwards (a day, 2 days, a week, whatever), an employee is on the roof and notices that one of the tanks is open.  Employee climbs the ladder and shuts the lid without noticing anything- either because it's at night or they just never take the time to look down into the water (why would they?).  The hole at the top is only 16 inches wide after all.

    The only problem I have with the lid not being closed behind her RIGHT after she gets in is that there would be no reason for her to have drowned then.  With the lid open, she would still be able to get her head out of the water for oxygen.  Or if she couldn't swim/tread water, she could have at least held on to the rim of the opening to hold herself up.

    And yeah, that missing footage REALLY bugs me.  To be honest why would they even release the whole video to begin with?  Her odd behavior in the elevator is probably one of the main catalysts to all the conspiracy theories anyway- if that was something they were trying to avoid, why not just release the first 30 seconds or so when she's acting relatively "normal."
  • engineerengineer Member
    edited December 2014


    excelent question Matt, I have read your posts and im very agree: as we
    see for real the astonishing  lack of
    firm evidence, that a person its even involved, one say: ok is there a person
    at all involved?... maybe the real question in this case.

     

    I think the problem its not if she was on drugs, or the young woman
    attitude, or even the approach of drug abuse deriving all the other stuff (which
    is really morbid stuff)That Occam´s razor approach mostly give us the chance to
    take the freeway, the other good thing of that approach is also, that its not
    bad and probability of success is really high.

     

    But the only reason we have the security video of a young woman its
    because police thought that “the woman in that video its not Elisa”. I don’t know
    if they precisely were expecting we to say “yes officers, I agree, totally shes
    acting really high”, because theres a Canadian-medical prescripted-drug
    history. In first instance, if we have to judge something its, is she Elisa? And
    as Katie said: well, are we focusing on Elisa, or the other security stuff?,
    because all the evidence seems to redirect to more disturbing stuff like the
    woman in the video took Elisa´s clothes to take her identity for a while, or
    else.

     

    If we take the security video off… the autopsy say some things:

     

    a) Elisa´s lungs pleural space had a black liquid, not water, not in her
    lungs… its different… because her lungs were almost dry, there was buttocks
    tissue prolapse, scars on her knees,  theres no petequial or conjunctival hemorrhage,
    and the tissues are autolyzed

    b) that evidence, is conclusive of 2 things: “dry asphyxia” (suicide,
    accident, she tried to scape from the water tank, she was throw there alive) or
    “there was not asphyxia at all” (murder, the body was already dead before
    entered, in some way, through the hinged cover of the water tank)

     

    Maybe it could be a lie, but probabilities (and some good will) tell me
    that thinking about a sort of unreal authopsy, derivate more than integrate.

     

    Is someone there in downtown LA who must be in jail, maybe 2 or 3 people
    including the young woman in the security video (if she´s not Elisa)? What about
    more pictures, the case is closed, but the freedom of information too? Recently
    I was reading some post about make kindof a crowdlit event, theres even an
    Elisa´s case youtube movie actress who looks more like Elisa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50dg4UCYIyA,
    maybe just shower thoughts

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Welcome to the forums, Katie. I'm glad you joined us and took the time to write all this - it's probably the best drug/hallucination based explanation I've heard yet. All of it makes good sense as well, although, we would have to assume that the tank was open as you've suggested, simply because I imagine it would be too heavy for her to have lifted on her own. But then, how did she close it with zero traction on top of herself afterward?

    Of course, if she was on meth / PCP or who knows what else, strength likely wouldn't be a problem.

    I'm with you 100% on the edited security footage. Why would they do that, and then release it in such a state? I'm beginning to wonder if it's actually all from one day, or if they've sewn together multiple clips from multiple days, which is why it seems not to make sense.

    Nevertheless, great comment.


    My thought process on her closing the lid behind her:

    I'm imagining the lid is a "flip top" type lid that is on a hinge that flips to the side/back when opened.  So I guess I thought she'd be treading water at the top and reaches out, gets a hand or arm behind the lid and is able to pull/swing it far enough for gravity to take over and it to fall into the closed position.  That being said, I do acknowledge that she'd have to be PRETTY quick to A) pull her hands/arms in fast enough to prevent them from being stuck between the the lid and the side of the tank rim, and B) duck her ENTIRE body under water/further into the tank to avoid the lid slamming down on her head....  We know it didn't because her body showed no signs of trauma.

    If the lid is the type that completely detaches, then my theory of her being the one who closes the lid from inside the tank doesn't really hold water (ba dum ch- pun intended).
    [DOES ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW THE TYPE OF LID THAT IS USED ON THE TANK?]

    Or....it could be as simple as....she never closes the lid.  She gets in there and drowns.  Afterwards (a day, 2 days, a week, whatever), an employee is on the roof and notices that one of the tanks is open.  Employee climbs the ladder and shuts the lid without noticing anything- either because it's at night or they just never take the time to look down into the water (why would they?).  The hole at the top is only 16 inches wide after all.

    The only problem I have with the lid not being closed behind her RIGHT after she gets in is that there would be no reason for her to have drowned then.  With the lid open, she would still be able to get her head out of the water for oxygen.  Or if she couldn't swim/tread water, she could have at least held on to the rim of the opening to hold herself up.

    And yeah, that missing footage REALLY bugs me.  To be honest why would they even release the whole video to begin with?  Her odd behavior in the elevator is probably one of the main catalysts to all the conspiracy theories anyway- if that was something they were trying to avoid, why not just release the first 30 seconds or so when she's acting relatively "normal."
    This has become our mission then:

    (1) To examine the water tank and its lid mechanism.
    (2) To determine whether or not the tanks have actually been changed (which I doubt, although they did change the name of the hotel). 

    If that whole is just 16", that's a seriously tight fit, even for a tiny asian girl. She would have had to really stuff herself in there to get inside, which makes me wonder why she would want to do so if we assume she wasn't on drugs.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator


    excelent question Matt, I have read your posts and im very agree: as we
    see for real the astonishing  lack of
    firm evidence, that a person its even involved, one say: ok is there a person
    at all involved?... maybe the real question in this case.

     

    I think the problem its not if she was on drugs, or the young woman
    attitude, or even the approach of drug abuse deriving all the other stuff (which
    is really morbid stuff)That Occam´s razor approach mostly give us the chance to
    take the freeway, the other good thing of that approach is also, that its not
    bad and probability of success is really high.

     

    But the only reason we have the security video of a young woman its
    because police thought that “the woman in that video its not Elisa”. I don’t know
    if they precisely were expecting we to say “yes officers, I agree, totally shes
    acting really high”, because theres a Canadian-medical prescripted-drug
    history. In first instance, if we have to judge something its, is she Elisa? And
    as Katie said: well, are we focusing on Elisa, or the other security stuff?,
    because all the evidence seems to redirect to more disturbing stuff like the
    woman in the video took Elisa´s clothes to take her identity for a while, or
    else.

     

    If we take the security video off… the autopsy say some things:

     

    a) Elisa´s lungs pleural space had a black liquid, not water, not in her
    lungs… its different… because her lungs were almost dry, there was buttocks
    tissue prolapse, scars on her knees,  theres no petequial or conjunctival hemorrhage,
    and the tissues are autolyzed

    b) that evidence, is conclusive of 2 things: “dry asphyxia” (suicide,
    accident, she tried to scape from the water tank, she was throw there alive) or
    “there was not asphyxia at all” (murder, the body was already dead before
    entered, in some way, through the hinged cover of the water tank)

     

    Maybe it could be a lie, but probabilities (and some good will) tell me
    that thinking about a sort of unreal authopsy, derivate more than integrate.

     

    Is someone there in downtown LA who must be in jail, maybe 2 or 3 people
    including the young woman in the security video (if she´s not Elisa)? What about
    more pictures, the case is closed, but the freedom of information too? Recently
    I was reading some post about make kindof a crowdlit event, theres even an
    Elisa´s case youtube movie actress who looks more like Elisa: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50dg4UCYIyA,
    maybe just shower thoughts

    Wow, that video recreates everything, even the elevator footage. Peculiar, I'm going to check it out. Thanks for sharing that. See? This is why discussions like this are so important. If you two hadn't shown up, we probably wouldn't have ever come upon all this new and interesting information or angles.

    If I were to rely on Occam's razor, I would venture to say this happened:

    (1) Elisa went to California.
    (2) She met somewhere there who was LAPD / Government, or of relation to them, and had a fling.
    (3) Elisa died partying, perhaps in an overdose.
    (4) That important individual had to dispose of the body quickly, and the water tank was convenient. Security footage withheld/scrubbed. Case closed quickly and nebulously. 

    But still, that leaves me with a ton of questions. Why does Elisa feel like a ghost more than a real girl? Why put her in a water tank instead of into a car and dump her somewhere - isn't that a huge amount of work? If the security footage was going to be withheld from us anyway, why choose the tank over many other far easier ways of disposing of her body? She was a small girl, and she could have been stuffed into a luggage case, or even into a garbage pail and carried off anonymously. 

    What if we're looking at this from the wrong angle? You mentioned something interesting, that the starting point of the investigation can determine what sort of evidence is yielded. Should we even be focusing on Elisa? Who would benefit from this sort of the situation? Would the LAPD? What was the LAPD up to during all this time that required a distraction? Did this take the heat off the Christopher Dorner mystery?

    "Cui bono?"

    So many questions. So few answers. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Anyone notice that the news reports of the story all state that her body was found at the bottom of the tank, but the police report says it was floating face up at the top?
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Anyone notice that the news reports of the story all state that her body was found at the bottom of the tank, but the police report says it was floating face up at the top?
    I absolutely did not notice that. A very good observation. 

    How long have you been following this case for? It seems you're pretty on the ball with it.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • I absolutely did not notice that. A very good observation. 

    How long have you been following this case for? It seems you're pretty on the ball with it.
    Like 3 days, LOL.  I noticed that discrepancy after reading a few people say she was found at the bottom and newscasters say that in videos, I thought "wait a sec- the police report says she was floating face up..." 
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