Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

CURRENT GLOBAL VISITORS (CLICK GLOBE)
D-FOX: PLEASE CONTACT US IMMEDIATELY

If you can read this message, please contact us immediately at the following email address:

thecomingcrisis@gmail.com

We'd like to communicate.

D-FOX

WELCOME TO CRISISFORUMS.ORG!
(1) Please swing by our "HELP CENTER" to view our forum rules prior to posting or commenting.
(2) Acknowledge that by commenting or posting, you take full responsibility for the content and message of the information you put forth, which does not necessarily reflect the opinions of this website.
(3) If you ever need assistance, simply contact one of the staff or send us an email and we'll be glad to help.

Remember Elisa Lam? Well, she's still posting...

1356745

Comments

  • If there was no water in her lungs then how could she be drowned in the tank?

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    I absolutely did not notice that. A very good observation. 

    How long have you been following this case for? It seems you're pretty on the ball with it.


    Like 3 days, LOL.  I noticed that discrepancy after reading a few people say she was found at the bottom and newscasters say that in videos, I thought "wait a sec- the police report says she was floating face up..." 

    How do you feel about me dispatching your wonderfully intelligent self on fact-finding missions?
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Who originally said it was her in the elevator?  I have never read the autopsy report, where can I see it?

    Also -- Wellbutrin does NOT cause hallucinations, nor does it cause them if you stop taking it.  It doesn't appear she was taking any anti-psychotic medications, which if she was indeed bipolar, she would need.  Her parents saying she wasn't mentally ill doesn't mean much to me.  It's part of the culture; they don't want people thinking badly of their daughter and them.

  • Who originally said it was her in the elevator?  I have never read the autopsy report, where can I see it?

    I don't think it was her in the elevator. In her blog she goes on and on about how large her legs are and that she has cankles. The woman in the elevator has very skinny legs and small ankles. Women who don't have definition in their ankles do not get it by losing weight, they just have stocky legs due to their build. This woman does not, completely the opposite.

    She also said she does not like to show her legs, and this woman in Februrary was wearing a skirt. When a woman is self conscious of a body part, she is pretty diligent not to show unless necessary (ie: 90 degrees in summer).

    From her blog: 
    "I am terribly self conscious of my legs. I find them disproportional to the rest of my body making me look chunkier than I am. And no matter how much I exercised, they never became any leaner. If I am not too careful, I fall into the trap of cankles.

     I'm sick of the cold weather and wish for warmer weather. Warmer weather meaning dresses. Oh wait, no I don't like dresses because that means exposing my legs."
  • I hope nobody minds that I'm jumping into the discussion out of nowhere.  Funny, I saw something on Facebook, some Buzzfeed article or similar that contained the "Creepiest Unexplained Photos," that showed the EL story.  Something about it struck a chord with me and I've been obsessed and glued to my computer the last two days reading all sorts of theories and ideas regarding the case- including this one (can I just say also that this is the most intelligent discussion of the matter that I've seen on the whole interwebz!). 

    After my reading/research, I have some thoughts....
    In the elevator, Elisa is experiencing psychosis/or a psychotic break.  According to her autopsy/the police report, she was taking Dextroamphetamine (Dexedrine), Lamotrigine, Quetiapine, Pseudophedrine (Sinutab), Wellbutrin, and Venlafexine.  One of the side-effects of the Dexadrine and the Wellbutrin is psychosis and hallucinations.  Also, interestingly, a side effect of pseudophedrine when combined with other drugs is that it may play a role in episodes of paranoid psychosis and hallucinations.    Another thought I had was she possibly taking the psuedophedrine recreationally?  According to the police report, she only had 2 pills left.  I know this is a stretch, but we all know the role this drug has in the manufacture of meth.  When I was in 8th grade 13 years ago, I knew people who would buy cold medicine at the store and use it to get high (this is before regulations were put in place for buying it).  Was she possibly experiencing the hallucinogenic side effects of her drug cocktail whilst she was in the elevator?

    The problem with THAT part of my theory is the fact that toxicology revealed no drugs present in her system.  While I'm no medical expert, part of me thinks that a dead body decomposing in water for almost 20 days might have an effect upon how detectable drugs would be in said body, I will take it at face value and agree, "no, she hadn't taken anything."  SO, that being said, what happens when she DOESN'T take her meds as prescribed?  She was diagnosed with bipolar disorder.  Severe untreated cases of bipolar disorder can cause the individual to becoming psychotic, complete with paranoia, delusions, and hallucinations. 

    So, I believe she was hallucinating in the elevator.  Whether it was caused by the drugs she WAS taking, or the LACK of drugs I do not know, but I think it was one of the two that was contributing to her behavior in the elevator.  It's possible that whatever she was "seeing" was "beckoning" her OR, she felt like she was being pursued/chased by her hallucination.  That could explain why she was up on the 14th floor (I believe her room was on the 4th?) and why she ended up in the elevator.  In the elevator, first she tries to hide from what she's seeing, then decides to "fight" it (jump and hand motions), before deciding to continue to "run away" from it, ultimately going higher and ending up on the roof.

    Regarding how she got up on the roof, I think it's likely she used the fire escape.  Once on top of the roof, she climbs the ladder on the side of the tank.  Once at the top of the ladder, she opens the lid (or was it maybe already open- negligence of a hotel employee forgetting close it perhaps), strips off her clothing and throws it into the tank.  Once her belongings are in the tank, she climbs in after it.  The police report states that the tank was 1/2 to 3/4 full when her body was found.  It's likely then that it was full the night she climbed in, and that 1/4 to 1/2 of the water in the tank was used over the 18 days or so that she was missing.  If the tank was full when she climbed in, she would be near the top, which would allow her to reach out and pull the lid down over herself.  But that's where she makes her mistake- now with the lid closed and the tank full, there's probably only a couple inches between the top of the water and the top of the tank which would make it near impossible for her to hold her head above the water and breathe.  She probably struggled and attempted to push the lid open above her, but being nearly totally submerged, unable to see anything, and with gravity working against her she can't get it open and ultimately drowns.

    Even though my theory is probably the most logical and pretty much totally jibes with what the LAPD determined, there is still something that I find fishy surrounding this whole thing:

    The 54 seconds of missing elevator footage- What was in that 54 seconds that was deemed un-releasable?  And, why cut it out and then splice it with footage of the empty elevator that occurred after.  Why not just release up to the point where she leaves the elevator?  That would simplify the process and prevent anyone from ever noticing any footage was missing......

    Welp, that's all I got! 


    I saw the same article on facebook which made me start looking into this as well! 

    A couple of points I have questions about:
    1.) "Was she possibly experiencing the hallucinogenic side effects of her drug cocktail whilst she was in the elevator?" I don't think it was actually her in the elevator, but even if it was - how do we explain the insane behavior with the doors staying open, then opening and closing, then traveling to a different floor (when the doors open for the final time in the video the wall background color is now bright red, not navy/black).

    2.) "Regarding how she got up on the roof, I think it's likely she used the fire escape.  Once on top of the roof, she climbs the ladder on the side of the tank. " It doesn't sound like it would be that easy, the roof is secured and alarmed, she would need a key card to access it and could not have done so without setting off either the security alarm or at the very least, the fire alarm if she went via the fire escape exit.

    3.) I cannot even begin to figure out how she got in the tank. It took 5-10 buff firemen to CUT the water tank to remove her body, I don't think there's an amount of PCP she could have taken to allow her to houdini herself in there. That said, How else would she get in there? 
  • mrpops09_CMOD_mrpops09_CMOD_ Chief Moderator
    - how do we explain the insane behavior with the doors staying open, then opening and closing, then traveling to a different floor (when the doors open for the final time in the video the wall background color is now bright red, not navy/black).


    I never noticed that! 
    Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
  • - how do we explain the insane behavior with the doors staying open, then opening and closing, then traveling to a different floor (when the doors open for the final time in the video the wall background color is now bright red, not navy/black).




    I never noticed that! 
    Yep, that bothers me and I've never seen anyone comment on it. It went to a different floor, opened, and no one was there.



  • > Rosie_MOD_
    > If there was no water in her lungs then how could she be drowned in the tank?

    When a person is still alive and is on drowning risk, theres a larynx behaviour which consist in close vocal cords and glottis to prevent water reach the lungs, but at the same time, air cant pass through. So the results are basically death by drowning. This "dry asphyxia" is associated to an increased adrenaline, ephynephrine, considerable amounts of anxiety or pain, even when its just 30% of all drawning cases.

    The elevator footage and video: Yeah in fact is really weird that the elevator´s door close after a while; and btw, actually I have never heard someone officialy claiming that the girl in the video is Elisa lol, not even the LAPD, so maybe its safe to say she´s not Elisa. Who wins.. I think, maybe, the CDC... Something.. not like a “big deal” but just some promotion of a new epidemic dissease like San Francisco´s AIDS 1989 outbreak (btw if someone know about a single aids patient still alive from the original outbreak I would like to know because at large theres not much evidence about real gay men involved, or even real people -before- zidovudine medication was introduced) but know as lam-elisa tb outbreak

    Sometimes seems like an unfollowed ginnea pig, as someone said on this thread that started maybe in 2006 (theres other movie, that its not "dark water", that contain references to the case, actually I dont remember its name), but something taste really bad. I think there is at least one victim: the corpse in which authopsy was made, and maybe another victim: the young woman in the video.

    Its very known the large list of serial killers in California, and the authopsy, sounds "accurate" enough to be fake, in my opinion. Im agree with that sequence: In some way or another seems like she contacted someone in LA and had an affair. Not all the cases must have released authopsy photos, mainly if the victim`s corpse had so much trauma (for example Elizabeth Short´s face authopsy photos). Yep, things are better with intelligent talk.
  • Who originally said it was her in the elevator?  I have never read the autopsy report, where can I see it?

    Also -- Wellbutrin does NOT cause hallucinations, nor does it cause them if you stop taking it.  It doesn't appear she was taking any anti-psychotic medications, which if she was indeed bipolar, she would need.  Her parents saying she wasn't mentally ill doesn't mean much to me.  It's part of the culture; they don't want people thinking badly of their daughter and them.

    According to Drugs.com (http://www.drugs.com/ppa/bupropion.html)

    "Neuropsychiatric signs/symptoms

    Neuropsychiatric signs and symptoms, including delusions,
    hallucinations, psychosis, concentration disturbances, paranoia, and
    confusion, have been reported; may abate with dose reduction or
    withdrawal of drug."

  • A couple of points I have questions about:
    1.) "Was she possibly experiencing the hallucinogenic side effects of her drug cocktail whilst she was in the elevator?" I don't think it was actually her in the elevator, but even if it was - how do we explain the insane behavior with the doors staying open, then opening and closing, then traveling to a different floor (when the doors open for the final time in the video the wall background color is now bright red, not navy/black).


    She pressed the "Hold Door" button, which held the door.  Once the hold was up, the elevator started going to the floors for the buttons she pushed.  I've read in a few different places that the hold button holds the door for 2 minutes.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    - how do we explain the insane behavior with the doors staying open, then opening and closing, then traveling to a different floor (when the doors open for the final time in the video the wall background color is now bright red, not navy/black).




    I never noticed that! 


    Yep, that bothers me and I've never seen anyone comment on it. It went to a different floor, opened, and no one was there.
    I personally still feel that there is a substantial chance that the "hallucination action" and the "zombie elevator" can be explained if the video were put back into context. So much was cut out that we lose that important context, and of course, this is assuming it's from a single video. It could be multiple videos spliced together for all we know.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator



    > Rosie_MOD_
    > If there was no water in her lungs then how could she be drowned in the tank?

    When a person is still alive and is on drowning risk, theres a larynx behaviour which consist in close vocal cords and glottis to prevent water reach the lungs, but at the same time, air cant pass through. So the results are basically death by drowning. This "dry asphyxia" is associated to an increased adrenaline, ephynephrine, considerable amounts of anxiety or pain, even when its just 30% of all drawning cases.

    The elevator footage and video: Yeah in fact is really weird that the elevator´s door close after a while; and btw, actually I have never heard someone officialy claiming that the girl in the video is Elisa lol, not even the LAPD, so maybe its safe to say she´s not Elisa. Who wins.. I think, maybe, the CDC... Something.. not like a “big deal” but just some promotion of a new epidemic dissease like San Francisco´s AIDS 1989 outbreak (btw if someone know about a single aids patient still alive from the original outbreak I would like to know because at large theres not much evidence about real gay men involved, or even real people -before- zidovudine medication was introduced) but know as lam-elisa tb outbreak

    Sometimes seems like an unfollowed ginnea pig, as someone said on this thread that started maybe in 2006 (theres other movie, that its not "dark water", that contain references to the case, actually I dont remember its name), but something taste really bad. I think there is at least one victim: the corpse in which authopsy was made, and maybe another victim: the young woman in the video.

    Its very known the large list of serial killers in California, and the authopsy, sounds "accurate" enough to be fake, in my opinion. Im agree with that sequence: In some way or another seems like she contacted someone in LA and had an affair. Not all the cases must have released authopsy photos, mainly if the victim`s corpse had so much trauma (for example Elizabeth Short´s face authopsy photos). Yep, things are better with intelligent talk.
    One learns something knew every day. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    edited January 2015

    @SusanW75 said:

    Who originally said it was her in the elevator?  I have never read the autopsy report, where can I see it?

    Also -- Wellbutrin does NOT cause hallucinations, nor does it cause them if you stop taking it.  It doesn't appear she was taking any anti-psychotic medications, which if she was indeed bipolar, she would need.  Her parents saying she wasn't mentally ill doesn't mean much to me.  It's part of the culture; they don't want people thinking badly of their daughter and them.

    Autopsy report can be read here:


    I've attached it as a PDF file on page 1 of this thread should the link not work. (Just search for my comment).

    It would seem that Wellbutrin most certainly causes hallucinations - if we  google "Wellbutrin hallucination" there are multiple psychiatric/academic papers attesting to that, as well as anecdotal complaints of hallucinations by those taking it. There's even a warning issued by the FDA. That said, I still don't think that weird behaviour in an elevator equates to drug use necessarily, since I see young people act insanely all the time absent drugs. Then again, maybe it's all the sugar, caffeine, rap music, and walking on people's lawns.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Would her taking her prescription drugs erratically potentially result in some side effects?  If you look at the police report, it appears she refilled all of her prescriptions on 1/11/13, yet as of 2/1/13 (assuming that's the day she died), she had quite a bit left over (some she even had more than she was issued)- Lamotrigine: 60 issued, 70 in her possession; Quetiapine: 30 issued, 20 in her possession; Venlafaxine: 60 issued, 64 in her possession; Wellbutrin: 60 issued, 57 in her possession. 

    I'm not too concerned over the fact that she had more than she was prescribed of the Lamot. and the Venla., she probably just refilled her prescription before she was out- I do that with my prescription all the time.

    The fact that she had so much left of EVERYTHING, when it had all been refilled 20 days prior tells me that maybe she wasn't taking her prescriptions as often as she should.  I would assume that she was probably supposed to take at least 1 of each pill every day, as that's usually how psychiatric drugs work....

    Just a thought....
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Would her taking her prescription drugs erratically potentially result in some side effects?  If you look at the police report, it appears she refilled all of her prescriptions on 1/11/13, yet as of 2/1/13 (assuming that's the day she died), she had quite a bit left over (some she even had more than she was issued)- Lamotrigine: 60 issued, 70 in her possession; Quetiapine: 30 issued, 20 in her possession; Venlafaxine: 60 issued, 64 in her possession; Wellbutrin: 60 issued, 57 in her possession. 

    I'm not too concerned over the fact that she had more than she was prescribed of the Lamot. and the Venla., she probably just refilled her prescription before she was out- I do that with my prescription all the time.

    The fact that she had so much left of EVERYTHING, when it had all been refilled 20 days prior tells me that maybe she wasn't taking her prescriptions as often as she should.  I would assume that she was probably supposed to take at least 1 of each pill every day, as that's usually how psychiatric drugs work....

    Just a thought....
    That's a very interesting observation you made.

    If one reads her blog entries, she often mentions not feeling well - dizzy spells, exhaustion, head discomfort, weird sleeping hours - and I wonder if taking so many head pills at once made her feel this way. That's a serious amount of medication for a young woman who didn't seem to exhibit any extreme psychosis. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)



  • That's a very interesting observation you made.

    If one reads her blog entries, she often mentions not feeling well - dizzy spells, exhaustion, head discomfort, weird sleeping hours - and I wonder if taking so many head pills at once made her feel this way. That's a serious amount of medication for a young woman who didn't seem to exhibit any extreme psychosis. 
    Those are common side-effects for many drugs, esp. psychiatric drugs.  I take Zoloft for depression, and when I first started taking it, and when my doctor upped my dosage, I had those exact side effects.  I just toughed it out and eventually my body got used to it and I stopped experiencing side effects after about 2 weeks.  But that's just with one drug- I can imagine with Elisa, being prescribed so many different drugs, perhaps her side effects were very severe, to the point that she would stop taking them for long spells just to feel better. 
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator



    That's a very interesting observation you made.

    If one reads her blog entries, she often mentions not feeling well - dizzy spells, exhaustion, head discomfort, weird sleeping hours - and I wonder if taking so many head pills at once made her feel this way. That's a serious amount of medication for a young woman who didn't seem to exhibit any extreme psychosis. 


    Those are common side-effects for many drugs, esp. psychiatric drugs.  I take Zoloft for depression, and when I first started taking it, and when my doctor upped my dosage, I had those exact side effects.  I just toughed it out and eventually my body got used to it and I stopped experiencing side effects after about 2 weeks.  But that's just with one drug- I can imagine with Elisa, being prescribed so many different drugs, perhaps her side effects were very severe, to the point that she would stop taking them for long spells just to feel better. 

    Do you know where one can find this official police report? I've read the autopsy report and all the various mainstream media takes on the event, but I've never actually absorbed anything from the LAPD aside from that highly suspicious elevator video. If you know where I could read it, I would be greatly appreciative.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Hi everyone! First time poster, long time lurker.

    Going off the assumption that she is not real, how can we explain the bad taste of the water that was experienced by guests of the hotel? Was the water ever tested? Are there any witness accounts regarding the taste of water? If people consumed the water with a decomposing body, wouldn't they possibly get ill? Are there any reports of illness relating to this water? Has anyone sued the hotel over this?

    Maybe it's irrelevant, but I'm just curious about this.
  • Do you know where one can find this official police report?
    I'm referring to the report made by the officer who responded to the 911 call of a body in the tank.  It starts on page 20 of the autopsy report (I guess I've been referring to it incorrectly as the "police report").
    Hi everyone! First time poster, long time lurker.

    Going off the assumption that she is not real, how can we explain the bad taste of the water that was experienced by guests of the hotel? Was the water ever tested? Are there any witness accounts regarding the taste of water? If people consumed the water with a decomposing body, wouldn't they possibly get ill? Are there any reports of illness relating to this water? Has anyone sued the hotel over this?

    Maybe it's irrelevant, but I'm just curious about this.
    There was a class action suit filed against the Cecil by its residents.  Here is an article from March 1, 2013.  I don't know what ever came of the suit....I'll see if I can find anything!
    http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/28/us/california-water-tank-corpse-suit/
  • Thanks! I'm curious to know what came of the suit. I guess I will be doing a bit of research. I will post again if I find anything!

    Did anyone also notice that right before she walks away at the end of the video, it looks as though you can see someone else's foot in the shot? It's at the very end. Curious.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Thanks! I'm curious to know what came of the suit. I guess I will be doing a bit of research. I will post again if I find anything!

    Did anyone also notice that right before she walks away at the end of the video, it looks as though you can see someone else's foot in the shot? It's at the very end. Curious.



    I'd also be very curious to find out what became of this lawsuit. Was it actually pursued to the end? Were there any rewards? Or was it simply "filed" so that it could show up in the headlines and add to the reality of the narrative?

    The parents have also filed a lawsuit, and I'm similarly curiously as to the results of that. There seems to have been little interest in the news to report on the conclusion of the whole Elisa Lam ordeal. 

    (P.S. It's great that you went from lurking to posting! Welcome to the hurricane!)
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • I also wanted to note that, based on her behaviours in the elevator, I don't really think she was acting erratically. I think she was trying to get the elevator to go. Her "hiding" in the elevator looked to me just like she was trying to get away from the sensor so the elevator would close. Also I do believe she was talking to someone in the later stages of the video, and they were edited out. Leads me to believe the person she spoke with has a connection to the hotel and access to the original footage.

    Who released th
  • Posted too soon!
    Who released the footage? Was it the LAPD or the hotel?
  • KatieKatie Member
    edited January 2015
    Some stuff I found today:

    Commander Andrew Smith of LAPD Media Relations interviewed on Chinese TV. It was posted on 2-28-2013
    http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTIwMTcxNjYw.html

    -He said that the police do not believe that EL's body was hidden
    anywhere previous to being put in the tank. They believe that she was
    in the tank "pretty much" the whole time she was missing.


    -He said the water tank has a "hinged lid" for looking inside of it, and
    says that he believes it was closed when the officers went up there and
    "they didn't think someone would climb up, or go onto that lid".

    A couple videos:




  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    I also wanted to note that, based on her behaviours in the elevator, I don't really think she was acting erratically. I think she was trying to get the elevator to go. Her "hiding" in the elevator looked to me just like she was trying to get away from the sensor so the elevator would close. Also I do believe she was talking to someone in the later stages of the video, and they were edited out. Leads me to believe the person she spoke with has a connection to the hotel and access to the original footage.

    Who released th
    I'm in agreement with you. To me, there's almost no visual evidence that the woman in the elevator was on drugs. I've seen a zillion people act in an identical manner who weren't intoxicated, and the fact that she's in control of her actions inside the elevator suggests the "weird" actions she does are either imitation, or simply fooling around. Someone who is on drugs and can't control their motor functions doesn't nimbly jump about with great precision. I think the "medicine" aspect of all this is merely a distraction.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Some stuff I found today:

    Commander Andrew Smith of LAPD Media Relations interviewed on Chinese TV. It was posted on 2-28-2013
    http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNTIwMTcxNjYw.html

    -He said that the police do not believe that EL's body was hidden
    anywhere previous to being put in the tank. They believe that she was
    in the tank "pretty much" the whole time she was missing.


    -He said the water tank has a "hinged lid" for looking inside of it, and
    says that he believes it was closed when the officers went up there and
    "they didn't think someone would climb up, or go onto that lid".

    A couple videos:




    Very interesting - but if she wasn't hidden anywhere and immediately entered the tank, how exactly did she die? Wasn't there no trauma, no water in her lungs (unless we subscribe to the dry asphyxiation theory, but I'm not entirely convinced), and no real record of her activity?  

    I also wonder if confusion has set in with all the reporting and stories floating around. For example, in that first video it mentions "Left 4 Dead", and describes the game as people escaping a rooftop through the buildings piping / sewer system. Strangely, that doesn't happen in the game, so what are they referring to? What other details have they been mistaken about, the mass media?

    The second video is a must-watch, and indicates to me just how wonky the conclusion is regarding the water people were drinking at the hotel. If no one was checking the tanks all that time, how would they know if it was chlorinated enough to be safe for drinking? How could the body be decomposing for that long, with all that bacteria and blood and who knows what else, and no one get sick? It's very bizarre. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)

  • Hmm, this case is just too bizarre! Much like Kate, I stumbled into the Buzzfeed post as well on my Facebook regarding "Creepiest Unexplained Photos."

    I immediately grabbed my phone to find more information when everything I read only left me more confused! So far, this thread has been incredibly insighftul with loads of great information, many perspectives and good ol' simple rationality.

    Questions..

    1.) Does she have a Facebook? I was only able to find one Elisa Lam Facebook which does state she is from Vancouver, Britsh Columbia, but the picture didn't look like her. Not only were there still active posts, but I actually saw that this "Elisa Lam" had responded to one of the posts some time after the date of her death. Curious about this.

    2.) Which news station first reported Elisa Lam's case in general? Did it start with the missing persons (and was this widely public) or did the reports of her missing come about after the death was discovered?

    3.) The autopsy report mentions sand being found on her clothing

    -Where is the sand coming from? Was she perhaps at the beach prior to ending up in the tank?

    Could it be that she came back to the hotel after a trip to the beach? Feeling exhausted and ready to relax she took her bathing suit off, threw on a pair of underwear (I myself wear this type of under on a daily basis. Black, pink, nude, yellow, you name it!) followed by some comfy clothes?

    In regards to what she was wearing, it all seemed pretty typical for a woman in their 20s (as I am as well). To me the vibe of her clothing appeared very comfortable and ready for the night to wind down mentality with no intention of meeting a man she has yet to meet. An insecure person despearatly waiting for the moment to meet her lover would not have been dressed as such. Unless, as someone mentioned before, these were the mans clothes and she had been with him before entering the elevator.

    -If thats the case - are there ANY other CCTV recordings of her through her stay, with or without a man? I feel like seeing more footage will be helfpul in understanding her demeanor on average.

    -Is there any proof/evidence of "Morbid" being at the hotel that same period? How did his name come about? I saw the video a user posted uploaded from "Morbid" but it showed a woman walking through the hotel room and I didn't find it relevant?

    -Do we have any way of confirming if her family/friends (I know they seem near impossible to reach) recognized the clothing she was last seen in?

    -Was it typical for her to not have her glasses on at night? Again - this shows me she was winding down and getting ready to relax. Maybe she was getting a soda before blogging it up for the night.

    When I was young, I loved running around in hotels before going to sleep! It's part of the excitment of a strange new land. Perhaps she was just goofing off?

    She seems like a pretty brave girl in the sense she traveled alone and (based of Tumblr) had enjoyed accessing rooftops. Although a very artsy insighftul woman, based off of her blogs it sounds like she didn't have many real friends. With that said, I wouldn't be surprised if she somewhat lacked social skills. Maybe she was approached by someone while in the halls and got spooked/excited and started playing little games not realizing the seriousness of the situation? Could it have been fun at first until she realized the man was still following her?

    This theory doesn't really play out though considering there were no signs of food items nor do I know if they even provided these.

    Also, her momentum when walking into the elevator seemed as if she had been walking straight for the elevator at a quick speed, almost leaning into the door before it even opens. Almost implying some type of "go go go" mentality. This makes me think she got in an argument with someone and was trying to leave.

    4.) I would really love to hear if any guests at the hotel saw her at any point.

    -On an old Huffington Post article:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/09/20/elisa-lam-dead-parents-lawsuit_n_3965094.html?utm_hp_ref=elisa-lam

    In the timeline, "Slide 7" says talks about a couple named Michael and Sabina Baugh who were on a 14 day tour package and had been there eight days and showered and drank the water. This is probably a strech and they probably weren't guests at the time Elisa was, but I wonder if they saw/heard anything. It never hurts to look into that.

    Agh, I just cannot wrap my head around this! Looking forward to hearing from you all!
  • Rosie_MOD_Rosie_MOD_ Moderator
    edited January 2015

    Elisa Lam's killer suspect

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • Dr. Douglas James Cottrell: The strange case of Elisa Lam

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."


  • Part 2 Dr. Douglas James Cottrell: The strange case of Elisa Lam

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • Roof access to the Cecil Hotel, roof access hatch

    "We are shaped by our thoughts; we become what we think. When the mind is pure, joy follows like a shadow that never leaves."

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator

    Hmm, this case is just too bizarre! Much like Kate, I stumbled into the Buzzfeed post as well on my Facebook regarding "Creepiest Unexplained Photos."

    I immediately grabbed my phone to find more information when everything I read only left me more confused! So far, this thread has been incredibly insighftul with loads of great information, many perspectives and good ol' simple rationality.

    Questions..

    1.) Does she have a Facebook? I was only able to find one Elisa Lam Facebook which does state she is from Vancouver, Britsh Columbia, but the picture didn't look like her. Not only were there still active posts, but I actually saw that this "Elisa Lam" had responded to one of the posts some time after the date of her death. Curious about this.

    2.) Which news station first reported Elisa Lam's case in general? Did it start with the missing persons (and was this widely public) or did the reports of her missing come about after the death was discovered?

    3.) The autopsy report mentions sand being found on her clothing

    -Where is the sand coming from? Was she perhaps at the beach prior to ending up in the tank?

    Could it be that she came back to the hotel after a trip to the beach? Feeling exhausted and ready to relax she took her bathing suit off, threw on a pair of underwear (I myself wear this type of under on a daily basis. Black, pink, nude, yellow, you name it!) followed by some comfy clothes?

    In regards to what she was wearing, it all seemed pretty typical for a woman in their 20s (as I am as well). To me the vibe of her clothing appeared very comfortable and ready for the night to wind down mentality with no intention of meeting a man she has yet to meet. An insecure person despearatly waiting for the moment to meet her lover would not have been dressed as such. Unless, as someone mentioned before, these were the mans clothes and she had been with him before entering the elevator.

    -If thats the case - are there ANY other CCTV recordings of her through her stay, with or without a man? I feel like seeing more footage will be helfpul in understanding her demeanor on average.

    -Is there any proof/evidence of "Morbid" being at the hotel that same period? How did his name come about? I saw the video a user posted uploaded from "Morbid" but it showed a woman walking through the hotel room and I didn't find it relevant?

    -Do we have any way of confirming if her family/friends (I know they seem near impossible to reach) recognized the clothing she was last seen in?

    -Was it typical for her to not have her glasses on at night? Again - this shows me she was winding down and getting ready to relax. Maybe she was getting a soda before blogging it up for the night.

    When I was young, I loved running around in hotels before going to sleep! It's part of the excitment of a strange new land. Perhaps she was just goofing off?

    She seems like a pretty brave girl in the sense she traveled alone and (based of Tumblr) had enjoyed accessing rooftops. Although a very artsy insighftul woman, based off of her blogs it sounds like she didn't have many real friends. With that said, I wouldn't be surprised if she somewhat lacked social skills. Maybe she was approached by someone while in the halls and got spooked/excited and started playing little games not realizing the seriousness of the situation? Could it have been fun at first until she realized the man was still following her?

    This theory doesn't really play out though considering there were no signs of food items nor do I know if they even provided these.

    Also, her momentum when walking into the elevator seemed as if she had been walking straight for the elevator at a quick speed, almost leaning into the door before it even opens. Almost implying some type of "go go go" mentality. This makes me think she got in an argument with someone and was trying to leave.

    4.) I would really love to hear if any guests at the hotel saw her at any point.

    -On an old Huffington Post article:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/09/20/elisa-lam-dead-parents-lawsuit_n_3965094.html?utm_hp_ref=elisa-lam

    In the timeline, "Slide 7" says talks about a couple named Michael and Sabina Baugh who were on a 14 day tour package and had been there eight days and showered and drank the water. This is probably a strech and they probably weren't guests at the time Elisa was, but I wonder if they saw/heard anything. It never hurts to look into that.

    Agh, I just cannot wrap my head around this! Looking forward to hearing from you all!
    Welcome Mega, glad you've joined us. It's indeed a mysterious case, and it's really great that so many people are gathering here to cooperatively find out what's going on. My thoughts on your thoughts:

    I've never been able to locate her Facebook, although some have referenced it, so I assumed it at some point existed. It's interesting that you mention her posting following her death, because that's also happened on her Tumblr, which we documented on this thread. It's very strange. Her sister Sarah has a Facebook page, two of them in fact - one for herself, and one for her mobile makeup services.

    An excellent question regarding when this story first surfaced. In fact, I almost recall the narrative of her being a missing person and her discovery arriving simultaneously. We would need to do a search into the first recorded news item when she first appeared in headlines.

    I wish I had more answers to the rest of your thoughts - from the sand (which is very interesting and worht exploring), to Morbid, to the woman's behaviour in the elevator, it's all a mystery to me. We need to do some really deep thinking and research on these elements of the incident.

    I find it interesting though about what you mentioned regarding her being brave and travelling alone. That's actually strange now that I think about it, because her blogs represent her as insecure and intimidated by the world. It must have been quite a leap for her to travel as she did. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • I read up on morbid as he relates to this case. Apparently he posted a video of himself staying at the Cecil hotel a year before the murder. Then he released a music video referencing a dead girl and people started accusing him of being involved in Elisa's murder. It seems he then took the opportunity to use her murder to sell albums, leaving "clues" in his CDs as to whether or not he did it. For example, he had a new album coming out and the promo for it was something like "did he do it? Find clues on the next album and find out!" Then apparently he was told he would be investigated, so he removed a bunch of stuff he had written that alluded to his involvement.

    I personally don't feel like he was involved (solely based on what I have read). It seems he was just taking advantage of a shitty situation to gain album sales.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator

    Dr. Douglas James Cottrell: The strange case of Elisa Lam

    Well, this video was certainly creepy.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Dr. Douglas James Cottrell: The

    strange case of Elisa Lam



    Well, this video was certainly creepy.


    Now I'm gonna have to wait till daytime to watch the vid! *-:)
  • This case has bothered me since the first reports of her disappearance, then subsequent discovery of her body. So many things bother me:

    Near media blackout, and abnormally long wait for official tox reports..

    If she was found nude, if her clothes were found or not?

    How she got into the tank? Did she close the hatch?

    Also the possibility of altered surveillance (elevator) footage.

    I'm open to the possibility that she may have been suffering from psychosis, and also that she may have met with foul play. Most likely why this case bothers me, is the fact of so little official info released..

    If police truly feel it was accidental why not resolve all of these questions? The case is closed, no need to hide evidence if they believe she did this on her own.

    It's very sad since she was so young, and seemed to be an intelligent promising young woman.
  • Anyone notice that the news reports of the story all state that her body was found at the bottom of the tank, but the police report says it was floating face up at the top?
    Possibly since they had to cut the tank open, and access her body that way terminology was a little confusing?
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator

    Dr. Douglas James Cottrell: The

    strange case of Elisa Lam



    Well, this video was certainly creepy.


    Now I'm gonna have to wait till daytime to watch the vid! *-:)

    Probably a good idea!
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Everyone should remember to "favourite" this thread so that they get automatic email updates when new comments are made (should that interest them). I've done so myself. Just click on the little star at the top right of this thread, and it adds it to your bookmarked favourites list.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Everyone should remember to "favourite" this thread so that they get automatic email updates when new comments are made (should that interest them). I've done so myself. Just click on the little star at the top right of this thread, and it adds it to your bookmarked favourites list.
    Sorry, Matt...but I'm using mobile and do not see a star anywhere. Is there another place for favoriting? Could just be my phone issues.

    Thanks.

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Everyone should remember to "favourite" this thread so that they get automatic email updates when new comments are made (should that interest them). I've done so myself. Just click on the little star at the top right of this thread, and it adds it to your bookmarked favourites list.


    Sorry, Matt...but I'm using mobile and do not see a star anywhere. Is there another place for favoriting? Could just be my phone issues.

    Thanks.

    Are you seeing the full version of the website, or has it gone into the mobile version for you? There should be a little star beside the headline at the top of this page. It might not be available in the mobile version.

    Alternatively, on the main page that features all the discussions, the star appears next to every headline, so it might be clickable there as well.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Am I the only one who thinks the girl in the video looks similar, but, just not quite like her photos?
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Am I the only one who thinks the girl in the video looks similar, but, just not quite like her photos?
    At first I didn't pick up on that (probably due to being a man - recognizing haircut changes are still a challenge after all), but after it was mentioned here on this thread (a few messages back I think but I can't remember by who exactly), I see some pretty big differences. Different skin colouration, although she could have a tan being in California. Different face shape. No glasses. Different hairstyle. A suddenly ability to reveal her legs despite expressing a fear over doing so in her blogs. Maybe Elisa's identity was coopted for some purpose?
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)



  • Welcome Mega, glad you've joined us. It's indeed a mysterious case, and
    it's really great that so many people are gathering here to
    cooperatively find out what's going on. My thoughts on your thoughts:

    I've
    never been able to locate her Facebook, although some have referenced
    it, so I assumed it at some point existed. It's interesting that you
    mention her posting following her death, because that's also happened on
    her Tumblr, which we documented on this thread. It's very strange. Her
    sister Sarah has a Facebook page, two of them in fact - one for herself,
    and one for her mobile makeup services.

    An
    excellent question regarding when this story first surfaced. In fact, I
    almost recall the narrative of her being a missing person and her
    discovery arriving simultaneously. We would need to do a search into the
    first recorded news item when she first appeared in headlines.

    I
    wish I had more answers to the rest of your thoughts - from the sand
    (which is very interesting and worht exploring), to Morbid, to the
    woman's behaviour in the elevator, it's all a mystery to me. We need to
    do some really deep thinking and research on these elements of the
    incident.

    I find it interesting though about
    what you mentioned regarding her being brave and travelling alone.
    That's actually strange now that I think about it, because her blogs
    represent her as insecure and intimidated by the world. It must have
    been quite a leap for her to travel as she did. 
    Hello Matt and fellow comrades!

    Thanks for the reply! I see that a
    user has posted quite a few youtube videos since my post so I need to
    scrounge through those and watch them! Excited for this. I've
    never replied to a quote before so I'm sorry if the whole post shows up
    without the shortened version dispalying ">>show previous
    quotes".

    Regarding her Facebook page, I can't find it when I
    search via browser, but I can find it when I search friends within the
    Facebook app on my phone.

    Unfortunately I only have access to an
    actual PC while I'm at work and I'm unable to access Facebook while on
    the clock, so I will send screen shots I uploaded via Cloud.

    -The
    strange part is, I know on her Tumblr she was supposedly
    "auto-reposting" or what have you, but the post on Facebook was an
    actual reply to a conversation one had posted. Also, although it doesn't
    look like her, they do live in the same location.

    Hmm..

    Facebook page accessible via Facebook mobile app:

    https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/B88fnKyrwer4iedUAF82oER0kqDckv-K-npMJHW7cLk

    Reply from "Elisa" on post:

    https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/MaKIZbZz5LlKha7fBuDdRFOL1EpUkIGJVoi9k8XV5ls

    I'm sure if someone searches for her in the facebook app they will find the same profile I'm referring to.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator



    Welcome Mega, glad you've joined us. It's indeed a mysterious case, and
    it's really great that so many people are gathering here to
    cooperatively find out what's going on. My thoughts on your thoughts:

    I've
    never been able to locate her Facebook, although some have referenced
    it, so I assumed it at some point existed. It's interesting that you
    mention her posting following her death, because that's also happened on
    her Tumblr, which we documented on this thread. It's very strange. Her
    sister Sarah has a Facebook page, two of them in fact - one for herself,
    and one for her mobile makeup services.

    An
    excellent question regarding when this story first surfaced. In fact, I
    almost recall the narrative of her being a missing person and her
    discovery arriving simultaneously. We would need to do a search into the
    first recorded news item when she first appeared in headlines.

    I
    wish I had more answers to the rest of your thoughts - from the sand
    (which is very interesting and worht exploring), to Morbid, to the
    woman's behaviour in the elevator, it's all a mystery to me. We need to
    do some really deep thinking and research on these elements of the
    incident.

    I find it interesting though about
    what you mentioned regarding her being brave and travelling alone.
    That's actually strange now that I think about it, because her blogs
    represent her as insecure and intimidated by the world. It must have
    been quite a leap for her to travel as she did. 


    Hello Matt and fellow comrades!


    Thanks for the reply! I see that a
    user has posted quite a few youtube videos since my post so I need to
    scrounge through those and watch them! Excited for this. I've
    never replied to a quote before so I'm sorry if the whole post shows up
    without the shortened version dispalying ">>show previous
    quotes".

    Regarding her Facebook page, I can't find it when I
    search via browser, but I can find it when I search friends within the
    Facebook app on my phone.

    Unfortunately I only have access to an
    actual PC while I'm at work and I'm unable to access Facebook while on
    the clock, so I will send screen shots I uploaded via Cloud.

    -The
    strange part is, I know on her Tumblr she was supposedly
    "auto-reposting" or what have you, but the post on Facebook was an
    actual reply to a conversation one had posted. Also, although it doesn't
    look like her, they do live in the same location.

    Hmm..

    Facebook page accessible via Facebook mobile app:

    https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/B88fnKyrwer4iedUAF82oER0kqDckv-K-npMJHW7cLk

    Reply from "Elisa" on post:

    https://www.amazon.com/clouddrive/share/MaKIZbZz5LlKha7fBuDdRFOL1EpUkIGJVoi9k8XV5ls

    I'm sure if someone searches for her in the facebook app they will find the same profile I'm referring to.
    The quotation process is automated, so it will collapse and expand replies as needed. All you ever have to do is click the "quote" button and the rest will be taken care of for you.

    Regarding the profiles, I believe I've come across that woman before, and thought she was simply another asian woman who so happened to be named "Elisa Lam". Do you think that's her?
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • The fact that someone is still posting on her blog doesn't really mean anything to me.  People can hack into anything.  The things that bother me most are:

    1.  The ruling of an accidental death.  No way this was accidental.  Was it a suicide or a murder? I don't know, but definitely NOT accidental.  I guess they are going on a theory that she was having a psychotic episode and decided to climb into the water tank? 

    2.  She was naked when found, but the clothes were in the tank with her.  Another report I read somewhere said no clothes were found near her.  ?

    3. The video - how do we know it's her?  The clothes match the clothes that were described in the autopsy report.  So it would seem it was her.  The elevator door not closing, could simply be an elevator malfunction.

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    I certainly agree that this doesn't seem like a drug-induced accident. There's too much complexity required for someone high and out of their mind to pull off - such as defeating the hotel security system, scaling ladders and buildings, etc. 

    As for the clothing, unless I'm mistaken, the official autopsy report indicated that her clothes were found inside the tank with her, and were sopping wet upon examination. I believe there were also sand particles found on her and/or the clothing.

    A good call on matching the autopsy clothing description with the clothing in the elevator woman. Unless the autopsy report isn't true, that would mean they are indeed the same girl. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Here's the thing, the Facebook EL, looks more like the elevator EL, than the actual photos of EL.
    She might be really good at changing her looks, however, I don't believe she's THAT good. Seems like different girls to me.

    Why though? I'm leaning towards the whole TB test thing. I really don't remember hearing anything about TB in the news. And I think I'd pay attention to that, cause, I have a disease that you cannot be exposed to tb if you take the medicine. But, I could've been busy too, not sure.

    I'm not sure she really existed.
  • I have located Elisa's linkedin profile. It is pretty bare, with the exception of her schooling at UBC. The profile states that her schooling is from 2011-2016. I find those years odd, considering that her blog states it took her three years to complete three courses. Granted, she could have created the profile before she began school, but university is typically a four year venture. Why would she project five years for herself? I would be curious to know when the profile was created, however I can't seem to find that information anywhere.

    Also I do agree that her photos all look like stock photos. I found a video showing her parents standing in the background at an LAPD press conference on February 6th. Some of you are wondering if elisa lam is real or not. If she is not, then they used the same "actors" at the press conference as they did in that graduation photo where Elisa is wearing the blue robe (same mother and sister). Here is a link with the press conference: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/missing-vancouver-woman-sought-in-los-angeles-1.1333824?cmp=rss

    When you do a google image search for her, a bunch of pictures come up. The majority of them show an Asian girl who, when she smiles, shows a lot of gum. However some of the pictures that claim to be of elisa have very little gum showing in her smile. It is hard to decipher which are the "real" her and which are not.

    Oh and no matter how many times I look at her photos, the woman in the elevator never resembles any of them. It could be due to the grainy video quality, but there doesn't even seem to be an ounce of resemblance.
  • Alrighty! I also found this article here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-woman-missing-in-l-a-described-as-caring-kind-1.1384716

    The article lists a friend of Elisa's, Mr. Alexa Ristea. I found his profile on Facebook and if you scroll down to 2009, you can see the graduation photos from what I presume to be high school. You can see Elisa in some of the photos.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Have we considered the motive at all? Who would benefit from either:

    A.  There being multiple women pretending to be Elisa, with one of them supposedly murdered.

    B.  A woman being murdered in such a strange fashion at all.

    C.  Giving her a name that's identical to a TB test name.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Have we considered the motive at all? Who would benefit from either:

    A.  There being multiple women pretending to be Elisa, with one of them supposedly murdered.

    B.  A woman being murdered in such a strange fashion at all.

    C.  Giving her a name that's identical to a TB test name.



    Fortunately, or unfortunately, my brain only works in conspiracy mode. So far, my inclinations are

    1- Los Angeles is a tourist destination for many countries travelers especially Europeans.
    What a better distraction to spread TB across the globe, than a girl found in a water tank. Swirling with mysteries.

    2- it worked, here we are focusing on Elisa Lam rather than Lam -Elisa.

    3- anybody checked CDC reports for the amount of people killed by TB?
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    It's really interesting that you mention TB, considering TB and Ebola seem to be easily confused.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • -Is this case even officially closed?

    It's interesting that while she was missing the police handled the case with a completely different approach. I wonder what made them change sides so quickly? I'm sure they knew of her mental-illness while she was missing?

    -Did anyone dust for fingerprints in, on, or around the ladder that matched EL?

    -The only plausible thing I can think of for why the footage was altered is because the police (and possibly Cecil hotel) wanted to the public to create an image of an "unstable" young female. But whyyy!

    If this case is closed I sure hop it re-opens. Will all of the publciity it's been getting lately, I'm sure someone will have to provide answers at some point.

    :/
  • In this facebook photo, in the comment section, you can see another person from the photo directly addressing Elisa, as if Elisa had previously commented (back in 2009) but the comment and likely her profile has since been deleted.
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=85851823079&set=a.85851453079.82595.507058079&type=3&theater

    Those grad photos made me really sad.  How ever she died, it's sad that a young woman lost her life. :-(
  • Hi folks

    I've been creeping on this comment thread for a while now and it's time to come out of the shadows.

    I've been wondering why the timestamp on the video has been distorted. Is this a fairly normal thing? Did the LAPD change it or did the hotel? Has it been redacted because the video wasn't taken on the day they said it did?

    Elisa was at the Cecil Hotel for around 5 days. Do you think it's possible that the LAPD couldn't find anything so they released a video that was taken days before her disappearance because they didn't want to look incompetent?

    No way of proving that of course, unless somebody steps forward and releases the unredacted timestamp version of the video.

    Also, is it possible the video skips ahead 54 seconds because there's nothing to show? Maybe the video just stares at the wall and so it was edited because there's nothing to see until the elevator starts moving again.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    -Is this case even officially closed?

    It's interesting that while she was missing the police handled the case with a completely different approach. I wonder what made them change sides so quickly? I'm sure they knew of her mental-illness while she was missing?

    -Did anyone dust for fingerprints in, on, or around the ladder that matched EL?

    -The only plausible thing I can think of for why the footage was altered is because the police (and possibly Cecil hotel) wanted to the public to create an image of an "unstable" young female. But whyyy!

    If this case is closed I sure hop it re-opens. Will all of the publciity it's been getting lately, I'm sure someone will have to provide answers at some point.

    :/
    The LAPD is certainly acting as if the case is closed, that's for sure. They don't seem all that interesting in pursuing her killers (if there were any).
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    In this facebook photo, in the comment section, you can see another person from the photo directly addressing Elisa, as if Elisa had previously commented (back in 2009) but the comment and likely her profile has since been deleted.
    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=85851823079&set=a.85851453079.82595.507058079&type=3&theater

    Those grad photos made me really sad.  How ever she died, it's sad that a young woman lost her life. :-(
    What an excellent find. One can see how happy that young woman seemed to be in that photo.

    Also, great catch on the Elisa comment - someone has obviously erased it so that it can no longer be viewed, which is strange.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Hi folks

    I've been creeping on this comment thread for a while now and it's time to come out of the shadows.

    I've been wondering why the timestamp on the video has been distorted. Is this a fairly normal thing? Did the LAPD change it or did the hotel? Has it been redacted because the video wasn't taken on the day they said it did?

    Elisa was at the Cecil Hotel for around 5 days. Do you think it's possible that the LAPD couldn't find anything so they released a video that was taken days before her disappearance because they didn't want to look incompetent?

    No way of proving that of course, unless somebody steps forward and releases the unredacted timestamp version of the video.

    Also, is it possible the video skips ahead 54 seconds because there's nothing to show? Maybe the video just stares at the wall and so it was edited because there's nothing to see until the elevator starts moving again.
    Welcome to the forums, lkultra - witty name, I like it. I'm glad you've decided to leap out of the shadows and into the thought hurricane.

    The distortion on the time stamp isn't normal at all. Someone has purposely blurred the video so that critical information can't be seen, as well as edited portions out of the video. 

    That said, that's actually a very interesting possibility. Faced with an insurmountable mystery, they might have put out something to save face - but if that's so, why would they have gone to such great lengths to edit it / obscure it? Perhaps there might have been nothing to show, but if they were concerned about that, I imagine they might have cut out the empty elevator footage at the end as well. I'm not sure, it's a very mysterious approach to releasing footage.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)

  • Also, great catch on the Elisa comment - someone has obviously erased it so that it can no longer be viewed, which is strange.
    I think once a facebook account is deleted, everything the person has ever posted gets deleted as well.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator

    Also, great catch on the Elisa comment - someone has obviously erased it so that it can no longer be viewed, which is strange.


    I think once a facebook account is deleted, everything the person has ever posted gets deleted as well.

    Which leads us all to the next question: who deleted it, and why? Family? I'm not so sure, and this ties in with her Tumblr updating by itself long after her supposed death. Someone had control of her social media accounts it would seem.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)



  • Which leads us all to the next question: who deleted it, and why? Family? I'm not so sure, and this ties in with her Tumblr updating by itself long after her supposed death. Someone had control of her social media accounts it would seem.
    I googled "my sister died how do i erase her facebook account" and it led me to this:


    But, interestingly, I also found this:

    "My sister passed away and someone is on her account"

    There were a few more interestingly links on google.
  • A quick note on venlafaxine, if you stop this drug suddenly without weaning off very slowly (months) the withdraw effects are very sudden. Within 24 hours you'll feel like you're trying to quit smack. You'll sweat and get horrible headaches and you're mood will drop off very very quickly. It feels like you're going to die. By 48 hours you'll physically shake. Unless she had the worst psychiatrist in Canada she'd be aware of this. It makes me think she was taking all of her medications. Unless she started out her vacation with the intent to end her own life it wouldn't make sense for her to not be taking at least that med. It'd be interesting to see if this is a drug the post mordum test could have detected. If she did decide to stop taking it she would be at an increased risk of suicide.

    Also the hotel itself, I'm sure it attracts folks who like it's deadly history, perhaps some people who may even admire Richard ramirez? We live in a country where killers like him reach a celebrity status for their crimes, I wouldn't be surprised if someone wanted to see the infamous hotel and decided to follow in his footsteps.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    A quick note on venlafaxine, if you stop this drug suddenly without weaning off very slowly (months) the withdraw effects are very sudden. Within 24 hours you'll feel like you're trying to quit smack. You'll sweat and get horrible headaches and you're mood will drop off very very quickly. It feels like you're going to die. By 48 hours you'll physically shake. Unless she had the worst psychiatrist in Canada she'd be aware of this. It makes me think she was taking all of her medications. Unless she started out her vacation with the intent to end her own life it wouldn't make sense for her to not be taking at least that med. It'd be interesting to see if this is a drug the post mordum test could have detected. If she did decide to stop taking it she would be at an increased risk of suicide.

    Also the hotel itself, I'm sure it attracts folks who like it's deadly history, perhaps some people who may even admire Richard ramirez? We live in a country where killers like him reach a celebrity status for their crimes, I wouldn't be surprised if someone wanted to see the infamous hotel and decided to follow in his footsteps.
    Good info on the medication.

    Very interesting regarding the copy cat theory. In fact, that really makes a lot of sense, especially because that person would likely have the motivation to plan everything out carefully and craft the "perfect" crime.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator



    Which leads us all to the next question: who deleted it, and why? Family? I'm not so sure, and this ties in with her Tumblr updating by itself long after her supposed death. Someone had control of her social media accounts it would seem.
    I googled "my sister died how do i erase her facebook account" and it led me to this:


    But, interestingly, I also found this:

    "My sister passed away and someone is on her account"

    There were a few more interestingly links on google.
    Good find. So both instances are not uncommon in that case. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • I've been going over this case All day. It's giving me the creeps and there's something about it I can't shake. When I noticed you guys are still active, approaching the 2 year mark.. I had to join.. Anyways, I still need to go back and read the last page. So far my thoughts are she wasn't alone or doesnt exist. More so the first one because I know people who do try to keep their identity off the internet. .but I do agree the pics don't look like her.
  • With the graduation pics is this one.. With a girl in the BG.. Is that her? It says 1 comment but no comment shows..consistent with her page/comments being deleted (unless my phones just acting funky)
    image.jpg 185.2K
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    With the graduation pics is this one.. With a girl in the BG.. Is that her? It says 1 comment but no comment shows..consistent with her page/comments being deleted (unless my phones just acting funky)
    Welcome, Gypsywar. Glad you've joined us. We're active here on pretty much every piece of news - 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. I bet you'll find a lot of interesting things here.

    I'm personally leaning towards her not existing / her identity having been coopted. There just seems to be too little evidence, and too much "narrative", and it's very strange. The LAPD have basically gone radio silent and haven't shared any new information on leads or anything. What sort of investigation is run that way? It's like they have no interest in catching the "killers". 

    As for that photo, that's definitely an Asian girl, but I'm not sure if it's Elisa. Although, it's hard to tell, because she somehow looks different in almost every picture. That girl in the elevator, at minimum, does not seem to be the same woman, at least in my opinion. 

    After you've read the entire thread, be sure to let us know what you think. You can also "favourite" / bookmark this thread by clicking on the little star beside the thread title at the top, and you'll get a new email message every time someone posts something new in this thread.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • With the graduation pics is this one.. With a girl in the BG.. Is that her? It says 1 comment but no comment shows..consistent with her page/comments being deleted (unless my phones just acting funky)




    i don't think that is her in the background.  Check out the picture Katie posted above.  She is the girl fourth from the right, jumping sideways and wearing heels.  People tend to change over time, and it looks as though she had a fuller face in high school, but it thinned out a bit as she got older.   From what I can tell, the woman in the elevator doesnt seem to be the woman in the pictures (I presume these pictures to be later than high school).  The face shape is different.  I am slightly tempted to reach out to one of these high school people and ask some questions, but what would my reasoning be?  curiosity? 

    I do not doubt that Elisa Lam existed.  I take the facebook posts and pictures from 2009 as proof.  I do, however, believe something has occurred that the police have either grossly overlooked or are covering up for whatever reason.  What bothers me most is how eerily similar this situation is to the movie Dark Water, even right down to the clothing.  Do you think an opportunist who was obsessed with the movie saw Elisa and jumped at the chance to recreate the film? 

    I know the hotel says that the roof is secure, blah blah blah.  but obviously its not. I don't think she killed herself in the water tank, as that seems to be a long drawn out death (drowning).  i also don't think she just decided to go for a swim.  

    as for the LAM-ELISA test, coincidence?  for those who do not think it is a coincidence, do you think the government killed her?  do you think she works for the government and is on some secret mission and faked her own death over a spread of tuburculosis?  Do you think she is actually alive and well and living at home?  do you think someone in the government knew she would be staying at the hotel and killed her to mask the outbreak?  how far in advance of testing is the actual test named?  

    i guess im just not quite sure im understanding what the "cover up" theory is as it relates to TB  

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    With the graduation pics is this one.. With a girl in the BG.. Is that her? It says 1 comment but no comment shows..consistent with her page/comments being deleted (unless my phones just acting funky)




    i don't think that is her in the background.  Check out the picture Katie posted above.  She is the girl fourth from the right, jumping sideways and wearing heels.  People tend to change over time, and it looks as though she had a fuller face in high school, but it thinned out a bit as she got older.   From what I can tell, the woman in the elevator doesnt seem to be the woman in the pictures (I presume these pictures to be later than high school).  The face shape is different.  I am slightly tempted to reach out to one of these high school people and ask some questions, but what would my reasoning be?  curiosity? 

    I do not doubt that Elisa Lam existed.  I take the facebook posts and pictures from 2009 as proof.  I do, however, believe something has occurred that the police have either grossly overlooked or are covering up for whatever reason.  What bothers me most is how eerily similar this situation is to the movie Dark Water, even right down to the clothing.  Do you think an opportunist who was obsessed with the movie saw Elisa and jumped at the chance to recreate the film? 

    I know the hotel says that the roof is secure, blah blah blah.  but obviously its not. I don't think she killed herself in the water tank, as that seems to be a long drawn out death (drowning).  i also don't think she just decided to go for a swim.  

    as for the LAM-ELISA test, coincidence?  for those who do not think it is a coincidence, do you think the government killed her?  do you think she works for the government and is on some secret mission and faked her own death over a spread of tuburculosis?  Do you think she is actually alive and well and living at home?  do you think someone in the government knew she would be staying at the hotel and killed her to mask the outbreak?  how far in advance of testing is the actual test named?  

    i guess im just not quite sure im understanding what the "cover up" theory is as it relates to TB  

    Curiosity would seem like a legitimate reason, especially if the goal was to learn about Elisa's life and personality, etc. It would be interesting in itself to see if her friends are actually even real people, or contactable.

    Any number of people might have "killed" her, depending on the motivation. Right now, the only party acting really strangely is the LAPD (strange "evidence", weak reporting, and essentially zero pursuit of suspects). That suggests to me that it either has to do with them, or they're covering up for someone, such as the government. But for what reason, I can't ascertain. The TB test is incredibly bizarre, but I can't figure out how it might relate. It's really just a giant box of puzzle pieces at the moment.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Heres another picture with her in it from the graduation (from Alex Ristea FB). She is tagged as the last one/first one on the right.
    I've been tempted like LaurenPie to msg a friend but can't bring myself to do it.  
    The other person named EL on facebook (who is very much alive) has anyone checked that it isnt her who graduated in 2009 also? (I will later)

    I can see the LAPD just trying to get her body out and close up the case to carry on to another one, especially since she wasn't an American citizen, there wasn't going to be huge fuss...sad but true. I find it hard to believe theres no other video footage of her there during her stay or out on the street. 

    From her last 2 instagram photo, I have a feeling she liked rooftops. I could see her going up there but that doesn't explain the elevator behavior (or its editing) or how she got into the tank. All of you guys already know this.. I'm really looking for more photos, videos, family and friends speaking, ect. 


    There is a lot of missing information here.

    Just wondering laws, since I don't care to see them: The autopsy says on scene photos were taken. Is there a time frame where these kind of things become public information or are they hidden away forever?
  • I was searching other message boards and I found this comment from another poster interesting:

    "I was stuck in an elevator once in my apartment building in Manhattan. I was surprised to learn that the security guard at the entrance had complete control over it. He asked my on the emergency telephone at what floor I wanted to stop, and trolled me to the wrong one. Cool guy.

    Long story short I suspect an employee had the elevator on lock down until she step out. Spoke to her from his office but had to keep his finger on the button. Hens her hiding and looking for someone. "

     

  • I was searching other message boards and I found this comment from another poster interesting:

    "I was stuck in an elevator once in my apartment building in Manhattan. I was surprised to learn that the security guard at the entrance had complete control over it. He asked my on the emergency telephone at what floor I wanted to stop, and trolled me to the wrong one. Cool guy.

    Long story short I suspect an employee had the elevator on lock down until she step out. Spoke to her from his office but had to keep his finger on the button. Hens her hiding and looking for someone. "

     

     
    Seems to be more of a run down place, I don't see them installing this kind of technology when they cant even put a door knob on their roof door.

    Can they rule out suffocation? If not, could she have been suffocated then put in? Or even suffocated just enough to lose conciseness before being put in there? I know they had cadaver dogs search the roof but they came up empty. Was it because they can't smell through it or that she was put in after the dogs were there?

    Someone may know this for sure but I havent came across anything about if all her belongings were still in her hotel room. Not sure why it wouldn't be mentioned if her cash,ect was missing or not.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator

    I was searching other message boards and I found this comment from another poster interesting:

    "I was stuck in an elevator once in my apartment building in Manhattan. I was surprised to learn that the security guard at the entrance had complete control over it. He asked my on the emergency telephone at what floor I wanted to stop, and trolled me to the wrong one. Cool guy.

    Long story short I suspect an employee had the elevator on lock down until she step out. Spoke to her from his office but had to keep his finger on the button. Hens her hiding and looking for someone. "

     

    While I lean towards gypsy's conclusion that that dump of a hotel probably didn't have such a system installed, it's still an incredibly interesting piece of information - and who knows, maybe they *did* have something like that. Which suggests that there were various people in league with one another over all this.

    A bit disconcerting. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Heres another picture with her in it from the graduation (from Alex Ristea FB). She is tagged as the last one/first one on the right.
    I've been tempted like LaurenPie to msg a friend but can't bring myself to do it.  
    The other person named EL on facebook (who is very much alive) has anyone checked that it isnt her who graduated in 2009 also? (I will later)

    I can see the LAPD just trying to get her body out and close up the case to carry on to another one, especially since she wasn't an American citizen, there wasn't going to be huge fuss...sad but true. I find it hard to believe theres no other video footage of her there during her stay or out on the street. 

    From her last 2 instagram photo, I have a feeling she liked rooftops. I could see her going up there but that doesn't explain the elevator behavior (or its editing) or how she got into the tank. All of you guys already know this.. I'm really looking for more photos, videos, family and friends speaking, ect. 


    There is a lot of missing information here.

    Just wondering laws, since I don't care to see them: The autopsy says on scene photos were taken. Is there a time frame where these kind of things become public information or are they hidden away forever?
    Good photo finds, gypsy. I've also been searching for the crime scene photos to no avail. I think they can only keep them for so long before they become public domain (through some sort of "freedom of information act"), but I can't be certain.

    She seems so happy in these photos - it's hard to believe this lovely girl had problems lurking beneath the surface. What a shame.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • A quote from Yelp on the now closed Cecil Hotel page. (I know it's call Stay on Main at this point).






    11/4/2013





    "Do not stay here! It
    is extremely overpriced, the staff is rude, and the rooms are
    dangerous. While I stayed here for a weekend, our sink actually fell off
    the wall and broke into pieces just because I barely rested my Hand on
    it. It obviously wasn't installed properly and is a safety hazard.

    We
    also found hair in the shower that wasn't ours and dirt in the beds.
    Their is also a two person minimum for the rooms and it is strictly
    enforced and checked at the elevator at all times of night.


    My advice, pick somewhere else to stay for a little more money. This place is scary."

    I wonder how true that quote is. I realize this was posted in November, so they could have easily changed the rules since the EL incident. Who knows. Has anyone else heard that there's security at the elevator at all times? If so, someone had to be actively aware of EL's whereabouts at the time.



  • gypsywargypsywar Member
    edited January 2015
    A quote from Yelp on the now closed Cecil Hotel page. (I know it's call Stay on Main at this point).






    11/4/2013





    "Do not stay here! It
    is extremely overpriced, the staff is rude, and the rooms are
    dangerous. While I stayed here for a weekend, our sink actually fell off
    the wall and broke into pieces just because I barely rested my Hand on
    it. It obviously wasn't installed properly and is a safety hazard.

    We
    also found hair in the shower that wasn't ours and dirt in the beds.
    Their is also a two person minimum for the rooms and it is strictly
    enforced and checked at the elevator at all times of night.


    My advice, pick somewhere else to stay for a little more money. This place is scary."

    I wonder how true that quote is. I realize this was posted in November, so they could have easily changed the rules since the EL incident. Who knows. Has anyone else heard that there's security at the elevator at all times? If so, someone had to be actively aware of EL's whereabouts at the time.



    I was reading the yelp reviews earlier today too. I think she meant "maximum" in your post, not minimum.  But the one that stuck out to me was 

    "I checked in at the front counter along with two of my friends who were not getting a room. The hotel clerk allowed me too check in and hand over my credit card. When i went to go to my room, two armed, messy, overweight guards told me I couldn't have any "guests" in my room. I said we would only be a minute since we were on our way out anyways but they insisted on not having anyone in the room with me. They said, "If I don't like it you can talk to the front desk". Confused, I went to talk to the clerk about the situation with two armed guards muttering and giggling under there breath to each other while staring disgustingly at my girlfriend. When I got downstairs the clerk told me guests were not allowed in the room..? I asked why he didn't tell me that at the time of checking in with people obviously associated with me at the time of booking the room. He said they could wait in the lobby because it was a fire hazard. I asked why the elevator has a capacity of 7 and the hotel rooms have a capacity of 2 or less? He said If my guests wanted to rent a room they could then go upstairs and visit with me.
     
    AND

    "
    The second night of my stay a creepy "security" guard knocked on my door at midnight, woke me up to tell me to go to the front desk. I called down to ask why and they told me the credit card I gave them for the deposit had been declined. "


    So again, guards. Wonder how long they've worked there.

    (edit, added second review/quote)
  • Ummmm ok total sketchiness. My guess is that these guards would also have access to the security footage in the elevators. Perhaps the two guards were working together. One guard screwed around with the elevator while the other stood at the end of the hallway or possibly in a stairwell, waiting for her. They would also have access to the roof, which would explain why alarms didn't go off. Two people could probably open up the lid of the water tank. Two people could also lift a body to the top of the tank and dump a body, tossing the clothing in and closing the lid back up.

    The above scenario is purely my imagination at work, but it seems plausible. I wonder if the security guards there were ever investigated, or even questions. Maybe they are buddies with the police department, hence it being swept under the rug. Who knows?

    Good finds. It leads me to believe more and more that someone was in control of that elevator.
  • I'll go with one security guard.
    Doesn't even matter about the elevator since she pushed the hold door button, that's why it wouldn't move.
    But one guy who was a guard could:

    Access the roof (which I don't believe is secured anyways.)
    Know where the cameras are to avoid it.
    Know about the tanks.
    Doesn't care if water is contaminated.
    If he's "security guard" built, he could life a small woman and a latch door.

    A few minutes ago I found another recent comment, though the guys stay was in 2005. I'll screenshot it.
    I know the maintenance guy had worked there for like 30 years too.

    Not trying to accuse anyone though. Do we know if they were at least interviewed by LAPD or Interpol or anything?
    image.jpg 218.3K
    image.jpg 271K
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Wow, what? That's insane. The place sounds like a filthy dump.

    These guards add a new dynamic. We should find out for how long they've been there.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Wow, what? That's insane. The place sounds like a filthy dump.

    These guards add a new dynamic. We should find out for how long they've been there.
    Wow, what? That's insane. The place sounds like a filthy dump.

    These guards add a new dynamic. We should find out for how long they've been there.


    Yea, might be a little hard though. Does anyone here live in LA?
    I'm thinking the security guards at the elevator might be a newer thing, but ill double check with old guest.
    I have a couple of 2011 employees, but none are guards. I don't want to say how I got the info or their names on a public forum though.
  • I meant 2013 but my phone won't let me edit the post :x sorry
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    I'll go with one security guard.
    Doesn't even matter about the elevator since she pushed the hold door button, that's why it wouldn't move.
    But one guy who was a guard could:

    Access the roof (which I don't believe is secured anyways.)
    Know where the cameras are to avoid it.
    Know about the tanks.
    Doesn't care if water is contaminated.
    If he's "security guard" built, he could life a small woman and a latch door.

    A few minutes ago I found another recent comment, though the guys stay was in 2005. I'll screenshot it.
    I know the maintenance guy had worked there for like 30 years too.

    Not trying to accuse anyone though. Do we know if they were at least interviewed by LAPD or Interpol or anything?
    Wow, pretty incredible stuff. I believe the LAPD briefly mentioned that they questioned the staff, but who knows what that really means. They could be in collusion for all we know.

    Those screenshots are really telling. Are you starting to get the feeling that the hotel was (and perhaps still is) some sort of assembly line for human trafficking / rituals / crime etc? I get this weird feeling that they go room to room and see who's there that could be of value.

    Nevertheless, fantastic finds. Absolutely keep sharing them with us. You're a bonafide gumshoe at this point.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Wow, what? That's insane. The place sounds like a filthy dump.

    These guards add a new dynamic. We should find out for how long they've been there.
    Wow, what? That's insane. The place sounds like a filthy dump.

    These guards add a new dynamic. We should find out for how long they've been there.


    Yea, might be a little hard though. Does anyone here live in LA?
    I'm thinking the security guards at the elevator might be a newer thing, but ill double check with old guest.
    I have a couple of 2011 employees, but none are guards. I don't want to say how I got the info or their names on a public forum though.
    Mysterious witnesses. Sources that can't be named. We're all knee-deep in this now. *dramatic movie music*
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Wow, what? That's insane. The place sounds like a filthy dump.

    These guards add a new dynamic. We should find out for how long they've been there.
    Wow, what? That's insane. The place sounds like a filthy dump.

    These guards add a new dynamic. We should find out for how long they've been there.


    Yea, might be a little hard though. Does anyone here live in LA?
    I'm thinking the security guards at the elevator might be a newer thing, but ill double check with old guest.
    I have a couple of 2011 employees, but none are guards. I don't want to say how I got the info or their names on a public forum though.


    Mysterious witnesses. Sources that can't be named. We're all knee-deep in this now. *dramatic movie music*
    You can get a hold of tons of information if you're creepy dedicated enough.
     
  • Welcome to the forums, Marley. I'm really glad you joined us and took the time to contribute to this discussion. Forgive me for not having responded a bit sooner - we're on holiday hours here until New Year's so it's a bit slow going.

    Your analysis is fantastic, and touches upon a lot of items we've been trying to parcel out here amongst ourselves. Archon, another forum member, also strongly feels that this mysterious person with whom she was in love could be a suspect in her murder, that is if it was indeed a murder.

    Do you mind if I pose some questions for you? I'd really be interested in hearing your perspective on these things, since they've been gnawing at me and I just can't seem to figure them out on my own.

    (1) If she was murdered, why did the LAPD present a security tape that was so heavily and obviously edited?

    (2) If she was murdered by her boyfriend, where is the evidence of his existence? Where's his DNA on her other packed belongings? Where are his finger prints in her room? Did the hotel have no record of who checked in / out of the hotel around the time she went missing? 

    (3) Why didn't the police attempt to activate the GPS on her phone, or do any sort of tracking? Why is there no mention of anyone (family, friends, the police) having called her phone?

    (4) If she killed herself, why was she naked in the tank? Why were her clothes found inside the tank with her (according to the autopsy report)? Did she undress herself while attempting to swim inside the tank?

    (5) How did a tiny asian girl lift the giant tank lid? How did her boyfriend lift the tank lid on his own? How did he do that after carrying her body up several exterior building ladders, up the tank ladder, and without being noticed by anyone else?

    Ideas to consider:

    -- Was Elisa Lam not murdered by just one person, but by several people?
    -- Was one of these people close with the LAPD / important officials?
    -- Again I must ask, are we absolutely sure Elisa still even exists?

    You mentioned her blogs / tumblr, etc, and I'm glad you did. On top of all those other questions, what do you think about her tumblr updating itself long after she was dead?

    Looking forward to your answers, and I appreciate your time in answering them.
    Thanks for responding!
    In regards to your questions:

    1) The edited tape is one of those things that just can't be explained, in my opinion. Nobody but the person who gave the tapes to the LAPD and the LAPD knows what's on them and why they've been so heavily tampered with. Maybe the history behind the hotel is something to do with it, nobody knows.

    2) Here I speak from just my experience, you can often check in and then, when someone else is at the desk, come back with someone else and go unnoticed. In regards to the record of "him" being there, if it's a busy hotel I feel like it'd be quite difficult to speak to everyone who was there at that time and be able to confidently say who's telling the truth and who isn't about seeing her. I can't explain the fingerprints because you have a good point there, but god knows what the LAPD are holding onto.

    3) The police seem to be really sloppy in this situation, and anything they say they've done or discovered contradicts what news reports are saying. Maybe they did track the GPS and had no luck and just decided not to mention it. I do believe there was mention of her family calling the phone? I remember seeing it on an article somewhere, she'd called to let them know her plans. If I'm mistaken I apologise. But if they know they triggered this then they're bound to keep quiet.

    4) I firmly believe if she did kill herself that she stripped down beforehand but still took the clothes in with her anyway. Maybe she thought the cold water would get to her quicker, I'm not too sure. And, if I stick with my bedroom gone wrong theory, she could already have the clothes in her hand and be running away from him.

    5) The lid is where I'm completely stumped. Maybe she just managed to open it a small amount and slid in, maybe there were several people helping the boyfriend who all opened it collectively. If he was operating alone, he could've cornered her to climb up out of pure fear and then just thrown her in. If she was skinny, which she appears to be in the video, I can't imagine her being all that heavy. Being unseen could also be down to him operating alongside others or just being extremely sneaky.

    Police forces are crooked and if her murderer was closely linked to the force, a member of the force or even ON the force, I can definitely see them covering for him.

    I'm positive she was a real person, just by the heavy presence on social media. I'm unsure if she ever actually declared her name on these sites though. Or posted pictures.

    The tumblr post could've been explainable if it was a series of posts all within the same time frame. But it was one random post and it trips me out a little. She could've accidentally queued it before she died, it happens. But it is really strange, could even be someone trying to torment her family.

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Wow, what? That's insane. The place sounds like a filthy dump.

    These guards add a new dynamic. We should find out for how long they've been there.
    Wow, what? That's insane. The place sounds like a filthy dump.

    These guards add a new dynamic. We should find out for how long they've been there.


    Yea, might be a little hard though. Does anyone here live in LA?
    I'm thinking the security guards at the elevator might be a newer thing, but ill double check with old guest.
    I have a couple of 2011 employees, but none are guards. I don't want to say how I got the info or their names on a public forum though.


    Mysterious witnesses. Sources that can't be named. We're all knee-deep in this now. *dramatic movie music*


    You can get a hold of tons of information if you're
    creepy dedicated enough.
     
    Stay creepy and dedicated my friend. If that's so, the world could use a lot more creeps to help ferret out all the injustices being done. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Welcome to the forums, Marley. I'm really glad you joined us and took the time to contribute to this discussion. Forgive me for not having responded a bit sooner - we're on holiday hours here until New Year's so it's a bit slow going.

    Your analysis is fantastic, and touches upon a lot of items we've been trying to parcel out here amongst ourselves. Archon, another forum member, also strongly feels that this mysterious person with whom she was in love could be a suspect in her murder, that is if it was indeed a murder.

    Do you mind if I pose some questions for you? I'd really be interested in hearing your perspective on these things, since they've been gnawing at me and I just can't seem to figure them out on my own.

    (1) If she was murdered, why did the LAPD present a security tape that was so heavily and obviously edited?

    (2) If she was murdered by her boyfriend, where is the evidence of his existence? Where's his DNA on her other packed belongings? Where are his finger prints in her room? Did the hotel have no record of who checked in / out of the hotel around the time she went missing? 

    (3) Why didn't the police attempt to activate the GPS on her phone, or do any sort of tracking? Why is there no mention of anyone (family, friends, the police) having called her phone?

    (4) If she killed herself, why was she naked in the tank? Why were her clothes found inside the tank with her (according to the autopsy report)? Did she undress herself while attempting to swim inside the tank?

    (5) How did a tiny asian girl lift the giant tank lid? How did her boyfriend lift the tank lid on his own? How did he do that after carrying her body up several exterior building ladders, up the tank ladder, and without being noticed by anyone else?

    Ideas to consider:

    -- Was Elisa Lam not murdered by just one person, but by several people?
    -- Was one of these people close with the LAPD / important officials?
    -- Again I must ask, are we absolutely sure Elisa still even exists?

    You mentioned her blogs / tumblr, etc, and I'm glad you did. On top of all those other questions, what do you think about her tumblr updating itself long after she was dead?

    Looking forward to your answers, and I appreciate your time in answering them.


    Thanks for responding!
    In regards to your questions:

    1) The edited tape is one of those things that just can't be explained, in my opinion. Nobody but the person who gave the tapes to the LAPD and the LAPD knows what's on them and why they've been so heavily tampered with. Maybe the history behind the hotel is something to do with it, nobody knows.

    2) Here I speak from just my experience, you can often check in and then, when someone else is at the desk, come back with someone else and go unnoticed. In regards to the record of "him" being there, if it's a busy hotel I feel like it'd be quite difficult to speak to everyone who was there at that time and be able to confidently say who's telling the truth and who isn't about seeing her. I can't explain the fingerprints because you have a good point there, but god knows what the LAPD are holding onto.

    3) The police seem to be really sloppy in this situation, and anything they say they've done or discovered contradicts what news reports are saying. Maybe they did track the GPS and had no luck and just decided not to mention it. I do believe there was mention of her family calling the phone? I remember seeing it on an article somewhere, she'd called to let them know her plans. If I'm mistaken I apologise. But if they know they triggered this then they're bound to keep quiet.

    4) I firmly believe if she did kill herself that she stripped down beforehand but still took the clothes in with her anyway. Maybe she thought the cold water would get to her quicker, I'm not too sure. And, if I stick with my bedroom gone wrong theory, she could already have the clothes in her hand and be running away from him.

    5) The lid is where I'm completely stumped. Maybe she just managed to open it a small amount and slid in, maybe there were several people helping the boyfriend who all opened it collectively. If he was operating alone, he could've cornered her to climb up out of pure fear and then just thrown her in. If she was skinny, which she appears to be in the video, I can't imagine her being all that heavy. Being unseen could also be down to him operating alongside others or just being extremely sneaky.

    Police forces are crooked and if her murderer was closely linked to the force, a member of the force or even ON the force, I can definitely see them covering for him.

    I'm positive she was a real person, just by the heavy presence on social media. I'm unsure if she ever actually declared her name on these sites though. Or posted pictures.

    The tumblr post could've been explainable if it was a series of posts all within the same time frame. But it was one random post and it trips me out a little. She could've accidentally queued it before she died, it happens. But it is really strange, could even be someone trying to torment her family.

    Thanks for taking the time to answer those questions. I can't really refute any of those answers, because they're all logical possibilities. It just goes to show that when the theatrics, the drama and the media fanfare disappeared, we were left with *very* little information as to what really happened. 

    It ultimately feels to me like she got in with the wrong crowd, a powerful crowd, and was squeegeed off the face of the earth because of it. A real shame.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Good news: Probably we are the most active think tank about Elisa, bad thing the other issues, and nonetheless I do believe there are many passive readers of the thread including , of course, some of the implicated on Elisa´s murder (because forme IS still a murder). Some timeline :
    a) 2005 Dark Water (japanese)
    b) The Departed (2006). Martin Scorsese and a strange footage of a poster which claims "it was liza" above a water faucet.
    c) There is a Cecil award, that in fact Scorsese won. (even when he is a terrific director, with not known links to snuff movies)
    d) Elisa graduated (2009), a huge discovery there gypsy et al. A lot of footage with Elisa and her friends, incluiding her boyfriend. There are several strange pics: We have to make a little jump in our timeline here. Theres a pic where her boyfriend and her friend both take 2 water bottles "we needed this water so badly", its said by Bob Zhao (I think Elisa´s bf) and Alex Ristea . Then around march 2013 theres a fb cover picture
    on Zhao profile which is strange: do you remember the sand on Elisa´s men clothes?, her calvin klein panties? well, just saying.. again with the timeline:
    e) Around 2010 theres an increased tumblr activity. Not fb because she just said she prefered tumblr, thats okay. Which its not, its that mainly, we have just a complete picture of Elisa (all the other ones as Matt said are probably her knees, or her fingers and so on ). Thats the pic and the piece of the cake where I started. Can you see in the pic how she make an strange movement with her free wrist? despite the fact that maybe shes not Elisa. But..
    f) "Slitwrist": that connect to i) Elisa´s body almost had no blood. If one remember that Heat movie in one scene the stepdaughter of Al Pacino tried suicide by drain her blood from body through a slitwrist while she was on the bath tub, because its faster. ii) theres a song called slitwrist by.. Morbid. On the video a young woman run in a wood from a stalke, and then the other stuff.
    g) And then we find that in 2013, someone killed her and the woman in the video was one of her killers, and maybe lovers. Why? I found out that theres a poerson on tumblr saying that Elisa´s tumblr account has been deeply edited. Apparently there were pics of Elisa with several man and woman she knew at Cecil. As that source said, all was ereased.
    h) As a matter of fact if one believe or not the source. We can say other thing, that has been said here befor. Somehow Elisa´s pic s shows some gum. The only part where the girl at the video is opening her mouth is heavily pixeled. just one second, but that second was truly important to identify to positively identify the woman in the video.
    So my point is: why the police closed the case so fast? as an accident? . Maybe they are right after all: If there was some sexual game which accidentaly derivated in death, and you have just one option: you have to choose murder or accident. Very creep.
    At large I would like to extend the invitation to some people out there that are reading the thread to tell us the truth. Some people feel super cool by feeling this kind of attention. Well, you have it now, show some more of your" masterplan" I really dont see other way to solve this but by feeding criminal ego. Even when we can choose a day to directly ask all our questions on every internet profile linked to this. I wonder what the response could be...could deserve a Tony award
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Good news: Probably we are the most active think tank about Elisa, bad thing the other issues, and nonetheless I do believe there are many passive readers of the thread including , of course, some of the implicated on Elisa´s murder (because forme IS still a murder). Some timeline :
    a) 2005 Dark Water (japanese)
    b) The Departed (2006). Martin Scorsese and a strange footage of a poster which claims "it was liza" above a water faucet.
    c) There is a Cecil award, that in fact Scorsese won. (even when he is a terrific director, with not known links to snuff movies)
    d) Elisa graduated (2009), a huge discovery there gypsy et al. A lot of footage with Elisa and her friends, incluiding her boyfriend. There are several strange pics: We have to make a little jump in our timeline here. Theres a pic where her boyfriend and her friend both take 2 water bottles "we needed this water so badly", its said by Bob Zhao (I think Elisa´s bf) and Alex Ristea . Then around march 2013 theres a fb cover picture
    on Zhao profile which is strange: do you remember the sand on Elisa´s men clothes?, her calvin klein panties? well, just saying.. again with the timeline:
    e) Around 2010 theres an increased tumblr activity. Not fb because she just said she prefered tumblr, thats okay. Which its not, its that mainly, we have just a complete picture of Elisa (all the other ones as Matt said are probably her knees, or her fingers and so on ). Thats the pic and the piece of the cake where I started. Can you see in the pic how she make an strange movement with her free wrist? despite the fact that maybe shes not Elisa. But..
    f) "Slitwrist": that connect to i) Elisa´s body almost had no blood. If one remember that Heat movie in one scene the stepdaughter of Al Pacino tried suicide by drain her blood from body through a slitwrist while she was on the bath tub, because its faster. ii) theres a song called slitwrist by.. Morbid. On the video a young woman run in a wood from a stalke, and then the other stuff.
    g) And then we find that in 2013, someone killed her and the woman in the video was one of her killers, and maybe lovers. Why? I found out that theres a poerson on tumblr saying that Elisa´s tumblr account has been deeply edited. Apparently there were pics of Elisa with several man and woman she knew at Cecil. As that source said, all was ereased.
    h) As a matter of fact if one believe or not the source. We can say other thing, that has been said here befor. Somehow Elisa´s pic s shows some gum. The only part where the girl at the video is opening her mouth is heavily pixeled. just one second, but that second was truly important to identify to positively identify the woman in the video.
    So my point is: why the police closed the case so fast? as an accident? . Maybe they are right after all: If there was some sexual game which accidentaly derivated in death, and you have just one option: you have to choose murder or accident. Very creep.
    At large I would like to extend the invitation to some people out there that are reading the thread to tell us the truth. Some people feel super cool by feeling this kind of attention. Well, you have it now, show some more of your" masterplan" I really dont see other way to solve this but by feeding criminal ego. Even when we can choose a day to directly ask all our questions on every internet profile linked to this. I wonder what the response could be...could deserve a Tony award
    An excellent summary. If the LAPD were complicit in this, I'm not entirely sure they would be boasting about it. For all we know, those involved have already been "removed" themselves. 

    If those involved did respond here, what would you say to them?
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • I feel an urgency to reply to all that ^^ but not until I can type at a proper keyboard. But question about the tumblr being edited. I've never heard that before! Who what why? What? lol how do we get these back. The Internet never really deletes stuff does it? Hah.

    People- remember to always screenshot potentional suspicious stuff that might be gone one day. ;). Guess it's a little too late for that.

    Oh and just an FYI
    I asked a friend in law school about how cases get reopened. I was told that a petition would have to be made and depending on that persons relationship, they may ask for more evidence. But if Interpol is involved they probably wouldn't.

    As far as the old comment on crime scene and autopsy photos, any privacy laws are out the window when one in deceased but photos as such have to be requested and generally a court will deny it since it can hurt the family.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    I feel an urgency to reply to all that ^^ but not until I can type at a proper keyboard. But question about the tumblr being edited. I've never heard that before! Who what why? What? lol how do we get these back. The Internet never really deletes stuff does it? Hah.

    People- remember to always screenshot potentional suspicious stuff that might be gone one day. ;). Guess it's a little too late for that.

    Oh and just an FYI
    I asked a friend in law school about how cases get reopened. I was told that a petition would have to be made and depending on that persons relationship, they may ask for more evidence. But if Interpol is involved they probably wouldn't.

    As far as the old comment on crime scene and autopsy photos, any privacy laws are out the window when one in deceased but photos as such have to be requested and generally a court will deny it since it can hurt the family.
    Very interesting information. Sound advice on taking screenshots - every member of this forum should consider it doctrine, especially since we have an "attach file" button that can preserve things. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/dead-body-aspiring-actress-found-4971412


    Dead body of aspiring actress found in water tank after residence complain of 'strange taste' looks like its recent.
  • ^^ Interesting! Perhaps this can help us compare autopsies. Make out whats normal - not normal.
  • mrpops09_CMOD_mrpops09_CMOD_ Chief Moderator
    From above article: 

    Body of aspiring Mexican actress found in apartment building’s water tank


    The water coming out of their faucets tasted awful, complained residents of a Mexico City apartment building.

    Local health workers went to check the high rise’s water tank, and inside found the badly decomposing body of Carmen Yarira Esparza Noirega, a 27-year-old clinic worker who dreamed of becoming an actress.

    Friends and family members had been using a social media campaign to find the missing psychology graduate since she went missing nearly a year ago after leaving work.

    Three weeks ago, after the rotting body was found, Noreiga’s parents identified the remains as belonging to their daughter, Fox Latino News reported Monday, citing the Mexican newspaper El Milenio.

    Relatives were able to recognize her because of her hip and breast implants, according to police.

    Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Too bizarre. And good call by megamorphosis: let's compare the two to as great an extent we can. Maybe we can even get ahold of the autopsy report.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Engineer, I don't think Bob was her boyfriend. He celebrated his 2 year anniversary in 2013 (with someone else obviously) but on Elisa's tumblr she mentions what her bf broke up with her sometime in 2013 for his ex, who then turned him down.
Sign In or Register to comment.