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Remember Elisa Lam? Well, she's still posting...

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Comments

  • (*Not the most recent bf). But correct me if I'm wrong or finding wrong info.
  • Hi guys, joined cause this story haunts me.

    Elisa ( if that's her real name? ) was not alone when she was last seen in the elevator. At around 2:30 when she turns around, there is a foot seen in the middle, between her legs that turn around when she turns around as well.

    However, the video is cut so the killer(?) is not being shown. It's much easier to say it was suicide cause she was simply said, depressed. Depressed people can't be murdered can they?

    The clothing however, her wearing black panties, is the only thing that's convincing me it's her. In her blog she states she loved fashion and expensive brands. Kinda weird she chose a cheap hotel then.



  • Elisa ( if that's her real name? ) was not alone when she was last seen in the elevator. At around 2:30 when she turns around, there is a foot seen in the middle, between her legs that turn around when she turns around as well.

    However, the video is cut so the killer(?) is not being shown.


    I actually thought the same thing, but i watched the video over and over again and i dont think it is someone else's foot (at least in the part where she walks away at the end).  I believe it was her foot, but she inverted it inwards.  if you look at the way she walks in the video, you will see she tends to point her feet inwards as she walks.  i think that is just the tip of her own sandal from her other foot. 

  • Hello.  I'm new to this site but have been following this story for a while now.  Reading everyone's very intelligent theories has opened my eyes to a few possibilities I hadn't yet explored.  There is so much surrounding this case that is unexplained or mysterious and the lack of evidence and tight lipped authorities just add to the confusion.  I suppose there are two reasons for the lack of info...either it just isn't present, or it's being withheld.

    I don't want to just reiterate the theories of others, as many of mine are the same, with her being murdered near the top of the list...by whom?  all of the theories presented are plausible.

    I have recently been thinking something else though, after an incident at work got me remembering different clients I've had and seminars I've attended regarding the topic of schizophrenia.  Elisa would have been at the average age for the onset of this illness which is often seen for the first time after a stressful event.  With the mental health issues she already had, including her social anxiety, I think travelling alone and staying in such a place could most definitely be classified as stressful.  The events in the elevator would not be unreasonable if she was schizophrenic(talking and playing with someone who's not actually there), nor would her climbing to the roof (as she seemed to like roof tops to begin with) and deciding to climb inside this water tank.

    I remember a seminar I attended a few years ago where a gentleman with schizophrenia spoke to the group about what it was like to have the illness and told stories of things he had done and what he was feeling at the time.  He was now medicated and the illness was stable, but he understood that could always change at any time.  He told a story of his first onset of the illness.  I don't remember everything he did during that time, but that he was in China teaching English and was having a hard time in the country not speaking the language. He says he remembers feeling stressed and isolated prior to the events that eventually got the attention of authorities and had him sent home for care.  He later tells a story of a time when he was doing well and functioning well but the meds stopped working. He was on a bus coming home from work when he all of a sudden got this over whelming feeling that he "knew" someone had hidden a bomb under a car at a crowded stadium. He got off the bus there and proceeded to search the underside of all of the cars in the lot until bystanders called authorities.

    I have heard many stranger stories from clients about what they believe to be real, but this story is the one that made me think of Elisa.

    I can't see her committing suicide by climbing inside this tank (much easier ways), swimming in it (with such a small opening just doesn't seem like something an intelligent person would do), or even looking inside this tank (why would you just get the urge to snoop to see what's inside this huge scary looking tank) if she had all her faculties at the time.

    Maybe there's a lack of evidence of foul play, because there just wasn't any.  Instead a freak accident involving someone not thinking rationally, so we cannot rationalize her behaviour or thoughts.

    Or, maybe it is a big cover up and foul play was involved.  This is still near the top of my list of theories.  

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Hi guys, joined cause this story haunts me.

    Elisa ( if that's her real name? ) was not alone when she was last seen in the elevator. At around 2:30 when she turns around, there is a foot seen in the middle, between her legs that turn around when she turns around as well.

    However, the video is cut so the killer(?) is not being shown. It's much easier to say it was suicide cause she was simply said, depressed. Depressed people can't be murdered can they?

    The clothing however, her wearing black panties, is the only thing that's convincing me it's her. In her blog she states she loved fashion and expensive brands. Kinda weird she chose a cheap hotel then.

    Welcome, Helena. Glad you joined us.

    I think she also mentioned that many of her trips outside resulted in her merely window shopping because she never had any money to buy those expensive brands. Or at least, she gave off the impression that she was perpetually broke, which might explain the cheap and ultra shady hotel. 

    But in all honesty, I could be wrong since it's hard to know the precise truth from just a blog. Maybe she lead two different lives altogether. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator

    Hello.  I'm new to this site but have been following this story for a while now.  Reading everyone's very intelligent theories has opened my eyes to a few possibilities I hadn't yet explored.  There is so much surrounding this case that is unexplained or mysterious and the lack of evidence and tight lipped authorities just add to the confusion.  I suppose there are two reasons for the lack of info...either it just isn't present, or it's being withheld.

    I don't want to just reiterate the theories of others, as many of mine are the same, with her being murdered near the top of the list...by whom?  all of the theories presented are plausible.

    I have recently been thinking something else though, after an incident at work got me remembering different clients I've had and seminars I've attended regarding the topic of schizophrenia.  Elisa would have been at the average age for the onset of this illness which is often seen for the first time after a stressful event.  With the mental health issues she already had, including her social anxiety, I think travelling alone and staying in such a place could most definitely be classified as stressful.  The events in the elevator would not be unreasonable if she was schizophrenic(talking and playing with someone who's not actually there), nor would her climbing to the roof (as she seemed to like roof tops to begin with) and deciding to climb inside this water tank.

    I remember a seminar I attended a few years ago where a gentleman with schizophrenia spoke to the group about what it was like to have the illness and told stories of things he had done and what he was feeling at the time.  He was now medicated and the illness was stable, but he understood that could always change at any time.  He told a story of his first onset of the illness.  I don't remember everything he did during that time, but that he was in China teaching English and was having a hard time in the country not speaking the language. He says he remembers feeling stressed and isolated prior to the events that eventually got the attention of authorities and had him sent home for care.  He later tells a story of a time when he was doing well and functioning well but the meds stopped working. He was on a bus coming home from work when he all of a sudden got this over whelming feeling that he "knew" someone had hidden a bomb under a car at a crowded stadium. He got off the bus there and proceeded to search the underside of all of the cars in the lot until bystanders called authorities.

    I have heard many stranger stories from clients about what they believe to be real, but this story is the one that made me think of Elisa.

    I can't see her committing suicide by climbing inside this tank (much easier ways), swimming in it (with such a small opening just doesn't seem like something an intelligent person would do), or even looking inside this tank (why would you just get the urge to snoop to see what's inside this huge scary looking tank) if she had all her faculties at the time.

    Maybe there's a lack of evidence of foul play, because there just wasn't any.  Instead a freak accident involving someone not thinking rationally, so we cannot rationalize her behaviour or thoughts.

    Or, maybe it is a big cover up and foul play was involved.  This is still near the top of my list of theories.  

    Welcome to the forums, Brownii! As one who thoroughly enjoys brownies, and eats not nearly enough of them, I'm glad you joined us.

    That's some incredibly interesting information, and I'm glad you've shared it with us. I've also read of stories of sufferers who think that Jesus is talking to them, or that aliens are about to attack, and so they turn to the person next to them and cut off their head - because that's the logic inside their mind. Or at least that's the story they're retelling. Drug poisoning, imbalances within the body (especially with food and allergies) can surprisingly produce the same results. Changing the diets of autistic children points in this direction. 

    There have been a lot of "nude attacks" in the news these past few years, where people suddenly run around without their clothes and start attacking / eating people while possessing superhuman strength. It's always blamed on drugs, but many family members and friends claim some of these people wouldn't touch so much as a tylenol. Hard to know. 

    Strangely, this Elisa situation would fit the bill of one of these "nude attacks":

    -- She was nude
    -- She would have required exceptional strength to get to the roof and manipulate the giant tank lid
    -- She was acting strangely for unexplained reasons
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Hahaha, guess I didn't think that through.  It was meant to be brown 2xi = eyes
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Hahaha, guess I didn't think that through.  It was meant to be brown 2xi = eyes
    That's actually pretty witty, and it was probably me who didn't think it through enough. That, or I'm simply a dessert monger.

    Either way, I hope you'll continue providing your insights here on this thread. We also have a zillion other interesting stories too, so you should check them out when you have a moment. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • While I understand that someone with mental issues could end up in said situation, I feel like that fact she was well traveled, and traveled alone before + her liking to talk to strangers (there's even a blog about how she says stuff that gets her into trouble sometimes since she doesn't use a filter). . . Well you know where I'm going with that.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    While I understand that someone with mental issues could end up in said situation, I feel like that fact she was well traveled, and traveled alone before + her liking to talk to strangers (there's even a blog about how she says stuff that gets her into trouble sometimes since she doesn't use a filter). . . Well you know where I'm going with that.
    It's indeed a less safe world for a woman to travel in on her own. Although, even travelling with someone matters little anymore, since pairs get knocked off just the same. The world is an intense place. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • hey Matt, Gypsy, Rose et all. I have missed you guys and your sharp, intelligent and interesting comments. Guys I had a not very normal experience, Im trying to get over it.I´ll post some comments later. Matt thats definetely a good question. I will aske them only one question which I consider interesting for me. Gypsy: I´ll review the post soon. Greets
  • that doctrine stuff made my day Matt, haha, remember that as many attachments and hypervincules this thread have. Google algorithm will index this page at the first result on Elisa case so lets attach whatever related to the case!
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    hey Matt, Gypsy, Rose et all. I have missed you guys and your sharp, intelligent and interesting comments. Guys I had a not very normal experience, Im trying to get over it.I´ll post some comments later. Matt thats definetely a good question. I will aske them only one question which I consider interesting for me. Gypsy: I´ll review the post soon. Greets
    Glad you're back. Spill the beans - just don't drink the water. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    that doctrine stuff made my day Matt, haha, remember that as many attachments and hypervincules this thread have. Google algorithm will index this page at the first result on Elisa case so lets attach whatever related to the case!
    Agreed. The more information and evidence we post here, the more prevalent this particular thread will be on the Internet. There aren't many discussions regarding Elisa that are still ongoing, so this gives us a great opportunity to keep the "case" moving forward. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • gypsywargypsywar Member
    edited January 2015
    hey Matt, Gypsy, Rose et all. I have missed you guys and your sharp, intelligent and interesting comments. Guys I had a not very normal experience, Im trying to get over it.I´ll post some comments later. Matt thats definetely a good question. I will aske them only one question which I consider interesting for me. Gypsy: I´ll review the post soon. Greets
    Hope you get over your odd experience soon. I've tried to do a little searching but haven't just ended up with a picture from 2009- which doesn't help us with something that happened in another country in 2013. I still wonder why there's no other footage from her vacation. Or strangers she chatted up.. Everyones all mum.





  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    What else was taking place in Los Angeles, or California, or America, or even throughout the world, before, during and immediately after her disappearance and discovery? 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • gypsywargypsywar Member
    edited January 2015
     
    What else was taking place in Los Angeles, or California, or America, or even throughout the world, before, during and immediately after her disappearance and discovery? 

    Great question. You're always making people think..
    Heres some things that were going on.. Could change the date to Feb 1st too.. I will look this week.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/31

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    edited January 2015
     
    What else was taking place in Los Angeles, or California, or America, or even throughout the world, before, during and immediately after her disappearance and discovery? 

    Great question. You're always making people think..
    Heres some things that were going on.. Could change the date to Feb 1st too.. I will look this week.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/31

    Good link, Gypsy. Now we just have to find some brave soul to pour over the other month's worth of news lists on that site!

    After scanning that particular date, nothing really jumped out at me except a story about surgery that had little to do with Elisa. But that got me thinking: Are we skipping over the obvious?

    A young, physically healthy girl shows up on the West Coast. Mingles with strangers who seem to be pressuring her. She's travelling alone. Her body shows up in the water tank of a shady hotel whose staff seem to have quite a bit of control over the building. Is anyone thinking what I'm thinking?

    Was she konked out, her organs taken, and the husk of her body dumped in the water tank? If internal organs weigh approximately 12% of a person's body weight, she'd be even lighter and easier to toss into the tank. The organ trade is a big business, and one that can't simply wait around until someone decides to sell a kidney, or heart, or dies of "natural causes". 

    "Nice try, Matt. But the autopsy talked about her organs!"

    Sure it did, but that report is nothing more than words on a paper. Easily fudged. We've seen no autopsy photos, no images, not even footage of a body in a black bag being removed from the hotel roof. We have no idea what condition her body was in, and neither would her family, since they probably wouldn't have wanted to look at a dissolved corpse that was once their daughter. 

    Also note that they could find no evidence of drugs or cause of death. As well, some of the organs were "taken away for further testing". Keep this in mind for later. We'll come back to it.

    I did a search for Elisa and missing organs on Google, and came upon a very bizarre case in Georgia that took place just weeks before Elisa's discovery. Here it is:

    http://www.misanthropictendencies.com/tag/elisa-lam/    (scroll down to "Kendrick Johnson")

    Not only did he die in strange circumstances blamed on a "freak accident" (much like Elisa's case is), but it was discovered all his organs were missing, replaced by newspaper, and no one knew their whereabouts. His parents freaked out, understandably. But what really struck me was that his organs were also taken away for testing, or so it was claimed, and he was around the same age as Elisa when he died.

    Were Elisa's organs ever returned to the body? Could the "lack of results" on the autopsy be related to the fact that if there were some sort of results, further testing would be required and further questions asked, preventing the movement of her internal bits? 

    This could also explain the lack of police interest, and pretty much no investigation. If someone was willing to purchase a bunch of organs, a lot of people were probably paid off and in on it, including the corrupt LAPD and who knows who else. Write an autopsy, ship a sack of bones and mush back that no one in their right mind is every going to examine up close, and shutter the investigation. 

    The hotel could have even been in on it. Could have been a part of its income. Why else would they be unwilling to release the security footage? It's a big trade, and people are pretty sick and twisted.

    Nevertheless, that's my latest hypothesis. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • gypsywargypsywar Member
    edited January 2015
    SO
    A while ago, I had sent a message to someone who had said they spoke with E.Ls ex- boyfriend (whoever that is)... asking what his name was. She got back to me today. She said..

    "..For some reason I cant find his emails in Gmail anymore....I can't remember his name - he read my post, said there was a lot more to the story than the media was reporting, said that she did alter his travel plans considerably to meet with someone she met online, but that was about the extend of the conversation... "

    (She is going to check her email back up for his name and will get back to me if anything comes from that)

    Jan 5th Post

    Next leg of my whirlwind adventure: the West Coast

    Meet-up applications now accepted for Vancouver, San Diego, Los Angeles, Santa Barbara, San Luis Opispo, Santa Cruz, San Jose and San Francisco. 

    SUGGESTIONS AND RECOMMENDATIONS HIGHLY HIGHLY APPRECIATED AND NEEDED!!!!

    Jan. 12th Post

    Planning planning planning for the West Coast tour…

    Sigh turns out I won’t be making as many stops as I’d like

    Vancouver, San Diego, Los Angeles, Santa Cruz and San Francisco

    I really want to stop by San Luis Obispo but alas…we’ll see

    Suggestions and meet-ups still highly appreciated

    ?

    So which one of you internet-lovers actual met up with her? She seemed to have such a lovely time at the Speakeasy, I don't think she was alone.
  • Whoa! Matt, I just see where you said "  (scroll down to "Kendrick Johnson") "...
    Today, a friend in the car with me was telling me about the Kendrick Johnson case but we didnt get too much into much detail, and I was going to look into it later but forgot... .. All she mentioned was some fight club and a school trying to cover it up. His organs were missing after the first autopsy. They may have just been trashed.
    ::unrelated?:A few days ago I had directed the girl from misanthropictendencies.com to this forum, via instagram. She might even be one of the newer posters, I dont know. :)

    Funny how the world works. 

    "We've seen no autopsy photos, no images, not even footage of a body in a black bag being removed from the hotel roof. We have no idea what condition her body was in, and neither would her family.."

    We usually don't see autopsy photos. They arnt released unless someone request them, and even then the court can say no so the family isnt hurt.. As far as Footage, I believe there is one picture where a big black bag is being carried away from the roof. You can see one person "stepping down" and another person holding the other side..
    Did no one identify her the body? 


  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    edited January 2015
    I certainly look forward to hearing what she has to say, that's for sure.

    As for identification, I think many people "identified" the body in various ways, but it's all really words on paper or unverifiable claims. As for her family identifying the body, I imagine it's a possibility but I've heard little about it.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • I certainly look forward to hearing what she has to say, that's for sure.

    As for identification, I think many people "identified" the body in various ways, but it's all really words on paper or unverifiable claims. As for her family identifying the body, I imagine it's a possibility but I've heard little about it.
    I remember reading in one of the many articles posted to this thread that the parents flew to LA to identify her by "body markings".

    TANGENT:
    I've been thinking that maybe the end of the elevator footage was edited out because it showed another, unrelated person walking by. I would hope that this person would have been talked to by investigators and cleared, if that's what or who it was. 

    If you just happened to be there at the time and ended up on the video would you want your image to be preserved as be part of this footage? Possibly not.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    I certainly look forward to hearing what she has to say, that's for sure.

    As for identification, I think many people "identified" the body in various ways, but it's all really words on paper or unverifiable claims. As for her family identifying the body, I imagine it's a possibility but I've heard little about it.


    I remember reading in one of the many articles posted to this thread that the parents flew to LA to identify her by "body markings".

    TANGENT:
    I've been thinking that maybe the end of the elevator footage was edited out because it showed another, unrelated person walking by. I would hope that this person would have been talked to by investigators and cleared, if that's what or who it was. 

    If you just happened to be there at the time and ended up on the video would you want your image to be preserved as be part of this footage? Possibly not.
    I suppose that's true, that a witness may have been protected. It does, however, require a huge amount of optimism and faith in the LAPD in order to believe this. I still wonder why the investigation seems to have been immediately closed, or at least it appears that way, since after the news crews left, all interest in her seems to have similarly vanished. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • GirlydahlGirlydahl Member
    edited January 2015
    "small flat whitish fragile flecks??"On and throughout her clothing....?n Why was this petite young lady wearing mens clothing size L and M? NO wonder she was found with out clothing on! With decomposition and bloating they would easily slide off during those processes.
  • GirlydahlGirlydahl Member
    edited January 2015
    Also weird is she is saying in her blog she doesn t like to wear dresses or skirts, guess what she is wearing in the elovator, right! A blue dress and an orange top, which she states in her blog are her favourite colours if it comes to clothes : http://etherfields.blogspot.nl/2010/12/contrast.html it seems the girl in the elovator hasn t got any issues with her bodie, which is strange cause she supposesly says this on her blog when she is telling a friend she is Not being a boyish girl she is having issues with her out look, anybody explain please. Here her blog about her legs: http://etherfields.blogspot.nl/2010/12/travel.html . It also erry people post on her while she is dead: http://etherfields.blogspot.nl/2012/04/worries-of-twenty-something.html#more

  • Not a dress! Men's Large short and M t-shirt....

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    That the woman found supposedly had the confidence to dash around without underwear, something that also seems a touch out of character for Elisa as she described herself. While her outer clothing may have become loose and fallen enough, her underwear should have probably still maintained its elasticity (in the bottom, since in the top she wasn't wearing any supposedly). 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • I thought they found basket ball shorts, green tank top, sweater, sandals and Calvin klein black panties*. .. (I can recheck the report again later)..the same clothes from the video.

    I've worn basket ball shorts on occasion as well (and no, not my boyfriends).. Especially at night. If she was going to take a peak at the roof skyline, or maybe go hang out eith
  • (Oops)
    ...with someone else who was staying there.
  • I still think there was somebody behind her. Maybe hit her on the head and that's why she lost her balance?

    And why isn't she wearing her glasses?
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    I still think there was somebody behind her. Maybe hit her on the head and that's why she lost her balance?

    And why isn't she wearing her glasses?
    That's actually a good point. If she was settling down for the evening, it's strange that she would be frolicking about while still wearing her contacts, that is, if she even wore contacts. I wonder if there's some way we could find this out? The autopsy report should have mentioned this - if she wasn't wearing contacts, and had no glasses on either, it becomes questionable whether or not this was actually her. 

    And if she decided to go swimming, why would she do it with her contacts still on? It's an interesting point to consider all around.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • According to the LAPD,    E.L Left home without her glasses.
    You guys are slipping on the details :p
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    According to the LAPD,    E.L Left home without her glasses.
    You guys are slipping on the details :p
    Probably because I left home without mine - I can't see beyond a few feet in front of me without them. Makes it really difficult to identify and keep out of water tanks on top of hotels. 


    @-)
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • taiteilijataiteilija Member
    edited January 2015
    Hello,

    I went through the 4 pages of this discussion and I wanted to thank everyone for sharing their interesting ideas and observations.

    I myself just can't settle for the accident/suicide theory. Neither do I believe that Elisa never existed, this idea was pretty much refuted by the facebook photo evidence provided above.

    Some or most of you may have found this already but I haven't seen the link in the thread, so I thought I'd share one more of Elisa's social network accounts - Listography

    I'm not familiar with this particular service, apparently just some simple list thing, and it's also hard to tell for me if these lists are all her own, or some of them are just reposted from others. The only insignificant match that I've came across so far is that the list of TV shows contains Downton Abbey and I believe I've seen something related to the series while quickly browsing through Elisa's tumblr. Anyway, my humble attempts to share something new :)

    Edit: Oh, and there's also this formspring.me account
  •  Hello,

    I went through the 4 pages of this discussion and I wanted to thank everyone for sharing their interesting ideas and observations.

    I myself just can't settle for the accident/suicide theory. Neither do I believe that Elisa never existed, this idea was pretty much refuted by the facebook photo evidence provided above.

    Some or most of you may have found this already but I haven't seen the link in the thread, so I thought I'd share one more of Elisa's social network accounts - Listography

    I'm not familiar with this particular service, apparently just some simple list thing, and it's also hard to tell for me if these lists are all her own, or some of them are just reposted from others. The only insignificant match that I've came across so far is that the list of TV shows contains Downton Abbey and I believe I've seen something related to the series while quickly browsing through Elisa's tumblr. Anyway, my humble attempts to share something new :)

    Edit: Oh, and there's also this formspring.me account
    I was looking at those recently but couldn't come across anyone who lived in LA who followed her or she followed... or talked with her on there.
    But one follower of her account on List. was an empty account named 'elisalam'... though this could be one that someone made after her death.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Hello,

    I went through the 4 pages of this discussion and I wanted to thank everyone for sharing their interesting ideas and observations.

    I myself just can't settle for the accident/suicide theory. Neither do I believe that Elisa never existed, this idea was pretty much refuted by the facebook photo evidence provided above.

    Some or most of you may have found this already but I haven't seen the link in the thread, so I thought I'd share one more of Elisa's social network accounts - Listography

    I'm not familiar with this particular service, apparently just some simple list thing, and it's also hard to tell for me if these lists are all her own, or some of them are just reposted from others. The only insignificant match that I've came across so far is that the list of TV shows contains Downton Abbey and I believe I've seen something related to the series while quickly browsing through Elisa's tumblr. Anyway, my humble attempts to share something new :)

    Edit: Oh, and there's also this formspring.me account
    Welcome to the forums, Taiteilija. Some good finds - I hadn't come across those accounts yet in my searches. 

    It seems she had a sense of humour:


    image
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    @taiteilija

    So if it wasn't suicide, and she did definitely exist - what do you feel actually happened to her based on your observations?
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • There was also a writer that met up with her little before she died.. Any info on her?
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    edited January 2015
    There was also a writer that met up with her little before she died.. Any info on her?
    A writer? What did he/she write?
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Maybe she knows a bit more about Elisa?
    image.jpg 142.8K
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    I found a website that I *think* is hers - she's actually a fashion illustrator, which would make sense as to why Elisa would want to speak with her:


    Seems she's still active and about. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Hey folks, I wrote a nearly 3000 word article about Elisa Lam, which is broken up into 2 parts: the investigation and conclusions.

    Believe me when I say I could have written 300,000 words about this case but brevity is best when it comes to internet articles. You may not agree with my conclusions but I hope you'll consider them. They're nothing new really, just trying to logically fit all the pieces together.

    Feel free to comment, criticize, what have you, I welcome your thoughts. You're all doing a great job here and let's keep Elisa in our thoughts until all the questions are answered.

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Hey folks, I wrote a nearly 3000 word article about Elisa Lam, which is broken up into 2 parts: the investigation and conclusions.

    Believe me when I say I could have written 300,000 words about this case but brevity is best when it comes to internet articles. You may not agree with my conclusions but I hope you'll consider them. They're nothing new really, just trying to logically fit all the pieces together.

    Feel free to comment, criticize, what have you, I welcome your thoughts. You're all doing a great job here and let's keep Elisa in our thoughts until all the questions are answered.

    Instead of linking, why not copy and paste those two pieces over here into this thread? There's no character limit on comments, so it wouldn't be a problem. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Hey folks, I wrote a nearly 3000 word article about Elisa Lam, which is broken up into 2 parts: the investigation and conclusions.



    I read part 1 so far.  So far from your writing, I can tell that you are leaning towards her being murdered vs. an accident. 

    I took the opportunity to finally fully read the autopsy report.  One thing I noticed...nowhere in the report does it state estimated time of death.  If it does say it in there, then I completely missed it.  But I took a human decomposition course in university, and I would have expected the coroner to state the estimated time of death based on the level of decomposition.  I think everyone is just assuming that she was last seen on camera Feb 1, so she must have died that same day.  but perhaps she was kept alive for a bit longer (again, assuming she was murdered). 

    Someone, feel free to jump in and show me where it says time of death.  Thanks! 

    Ikultra - I will read part two on my coffee break today. 

  • Hmm, according this blog, http://j-brown1.hubpages.com/hub/ElisaLam, the store owner of "The Last Bookstore" stated this about EL:

    " Katie Orphan who owns The Last Bookstore has said that Elisa was
    speaking loudly to customers and seemed like she would not leave them
    alone."

    I'm super curious as to what she meant by this. I was also to find the owners facebook if anyone is ballsy enough to shoot her a message.

    It looks like her store (http://lastbookstorela.com/) is still doing well and she looks very much active.

    I've been finding so many interesting articles which were published shortly after she went missing. A lot of the conclusions we've came up with today have actually already been mentioned. Why is it that it's so difficult to actually get in touch with someone who knows her, however?

    I've wrote multiple people with no luck.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    edited February 2015
    Hey folks, I wrote a nearly 3000 word article about Elisa Lam, which is broken up into 2 parts: the investigation and conclusions.



    I read part 1 so far.  So far from your writing, I can tell that you are leaning towards her being murdered vs. an accident. 

    I took the opportunity to finally fully read the autopsy report.  One thing I noticed...nowhere in the report does it state estimated time of death.  If it does say it in there, then I completely missed it.  But I took a human decomposition course in university, and I would have expected the coroner to state the estimated time of death based on the level of decomposition.  I think everyone is just assuming that she was last seen on camera Feb 1, so she must have died that same day.  but perhaps she was kept alive for a bit longer (again, assuming she was murdered). 

    Someone, feel free to jump in and show me where it says time of death.  Thanks! 

    Ikultra - I will read part two on my coffee break today. 

    I don't think anyone has contemplated what might have happened between the time she was seen on that video and the time she was discovered, so that's an incredibly interesting observation and could open up a whole new avenue of exploration and evidence. 

    I checked the autopsy report once more, and found the particular information interesting enough to share:

    -- As you mentioned, no mention of precise time of death, or an even an assumption.
    -- There wasn't enough blood to conduct the tests as they would have liked.
    -- Someone marked the cause of death as being "undetermined", but then crossed it out as an "error" before marking the cause of death as an "accident". Screenshot attached.


    image
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Hmm, according this blog, http://j-brown1.hubpages.com/hub/ElisaLam, the store owner of "The Last Bookstore" stated this about EL:

    " Katie Orphan who owns The Last Bookstore has said that Elisa was
    speaking loudly to customers and seemed like she would not leave them
    alone."

    I'm super curious as to what she meant by this. I was also to find the owners facebook if anyone is ballsy enough to shoot her a message.

    It looks like her store (http://lastbookstorela.com/) is still doing well and she looks very much active.

    I've been finding so many interesting articles which were published shortly after she went missing. A lot of the conclusions we've came up with today have actually already been mentioned. Why is it that it's so difficult to actually get in touch with someone who knows her, however?

    I've wrote multiple people with no luck.
    I wrote an email to her. Will update this thread if I receive any response. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • See this is what I get for not checking back everyday. I'll read that tonight.
    Her speaking loudly isn't really a surprise if you read her blog, seems like her personality. Idk.

    Id like to know who she went to LA to meet up with.
    I really don't think anyone who knew her before or happened to run into her is going to know what happened or have hidden clues. We know and come in to contact with so many people in our daily life, not knowing what the future holds.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    See this is what I get for not checking back everyday. I'll read that tonight.
    Her speaking loudly isn't really a surprise if you read her blog, seems like her personality. Idk.

    Id like to know who she went to LA to meet up with.
    I really don't think anyone who knew her before or happened to run into her is going to know what happened or have hidden clues. We know and come in to contact with so many people in our daily life, not knowing what the future holds.
    Well at the very least, getting a further glimpse into her behaviour at that time might be very interesting, so hopefully the storeowner coughs up the info. 

    Maybe she might have spotted some people Elisa was with, or overheard something interesting. 


    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Hi guys, more to write later but just a quick few things. I've read this post from top to bottom, good ideas everyone has. Someone mentioned somewhere else-if she was murdered, and he/she stayed at the hotel or lives/lived there, they most likely would have bought several gallons of water knowing her body was or would be put into the water tank. Of course the murderer wouldnt want to drink from or bathe in the water, or I hope not. I wonder if cops ever looked around for someone that may have bought several gallons of water a few days before she was discovered missing? Another thing-I looked on one of her blog thingies, and she mentions going to a speakeasy. Well there is one called The Varnish I found on google maps. It is literally right next to the hotel. And here is some random list of cool/hidden bars in LA http://www.thrillist.com/drink/los-angeles/culver-city/la-secret-bars-hidden-entrance In addition, is there not footage from the bookstore?? Didn't she go in there several times when she was in LA?? Also, I wish her family could describe the last phone call they had with her. What did she talk about, how did she sound, did she mention anything etc.? I wrote a really long thought with my take on some things, will submit later. I wonder if there is footage from The Varnish or was? I wonder if anyone remembers her or saw her interacting with anyone???
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    edited February 2015
    Hi guys, more to write later but just a quick few things. I've read this post from top to bottom, good ideas everyone has. Someone mentioned somewhere else-if she was murdered, and he/she stayed at the hotel or lives/lived there, they most likely would have bought several gallons of water knowing her body was or would be put into the water tank. Of course the murderer wouldnt want to drink from or bathe in the water, or I hope not. I wonder if cops ever looked around for someone that may have bought several gallons of water a few days before she was discovered missing? Another thing-I looked on one of her blog thingies, and she mentions going to a speakeasy. Well there is one called The Varnish I found on google maps. It is literally right next to the hotel. And here is some random list of cool/hidden bars in LA http://www.thrillist.com/drink/los-angeles/culver-city/la-secret-bars-hidden-entrance In addition, is there not footage from the bookstore?? Didn't she go in there several times when she was in LA?? Also, I wish her family could describe the last phone call they had with her. What did she talk about, how did she sound, did she mention anything etc.? I wrote a really long thought with my take on some things, will submit later. I wonder if there is footage from The Varnish or was? I wonder if anyone remembers her or saw her interacting with anyone???
    Welcome [uproarious laughter], glad you joined us and tossed in your thoughts for contemplation.

    You make some really, really good points. Tracking water sales is a brilliant idea especially if the culprit was a guest as you said. Of course, if the staff were involved, or were suspects, they might have simply brought their own bottle of water with them each day.

    I hadn't heard about the speakeasy she visited, or perhaps I simply forgot about it. It's peculiar that the LAPD hasn't attempted to cross-reference the security footage of all these places Elisa's travels and times of the incident, such as when she first disappeared, etc. Bars, especially "secret" bars, are notoriously shady places, so who on Earth knows who she might have come across there. There may have even been somewhere there who was waiting for a naive tourist to use in some sort of nefarious plan. Elisa might have very well been that person. 

    Looking forward to hearing your other thoughts once you're finished compiling them.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Elisa Lam Thoughts

    LAPD could have taken out part of video that showed someone else who was NOT considered to be a suspect, to protect their identity. Why not just blurry their face, and announce the elevator footage shows someone else, and we have ruled that that person is NOT a suspect. Why try to cover up an edit? What are we, idiots? If compressed a few clips together because those were the only clips that were of her etc. why not make that obvious? If it's a few clips, let us see each one, so we can have a better understanding of the situation. Why wouldn't they do that?

    IF she was delirious/on drugs/having a psychotic break etc. it would be hard to climb up the fire escape, up the ladder, then up another ladder, then very strategically and specifically lower herself into a small space. If she was on drugs, her movements wouldn't be able to be coordinated and skillful enough to even make it up there most likely. I've been high before, and couldn't even get off my couch without knocking a cup of water over or something. Bipolar runs big in my family, my sister takes same combo of drugs that was mentioned, Wellbutrin, lamictal. I've seen her off her meds and struggling to find right balance of medications, and my aunt has crazy bipolar. I've seen her manic and depressed sides, and while anything is possible, the elevator behavior does NOT look like she's having a psychotic break. It does look like she's wearing some guy clothing though, or maybe her sleeping clothing. Where was she coming from on the 14th floor. The roof? His room? Come on guys let's walk through this, take on her personality, where would we be going and coming from? If she walked left because she thought elevator wasn't working, why didn't she try the other elevator? Aren't there elevator logs of customer complaints when the elevator doesn't work?? Logs of maintenance checking it out??

    IF she was trying to commit suicide, why not just jump off the building? There are a million ways to commit suicide. When people are in that mindset they are NOT thinking oh gee I'll just drown myself in the water tank on top of the building! They are NOT thinking that clearly, just thinking in the exact moment. The time it took her to climb all the way to the water tank is enough time to still be alive if she wanted to die, she probably wouldn't waste any more time getting into the water tank when the roof is right there and she could just jump off. And no, people in this mindset don't think about gee if I go into this water tank and kill myself and close it, nobody will find my body for a while! People that are suicidal are NOT thinking that far ahead, or about anybody else. All they feel is the pain in the moment, and often make very rash, sudden decisions. I worked for a suicide hotline for six months, there is NOT that much thinking going on in the moment, just this feeling of pain or other emotions. Certainly not enough logic to strategize this kind of suicide. Also, most people that attempt suicide fail. IF this was her way of committing suicide, drowning with no weight is the worst, especially if you are making the choice to do it. Most people can't follow through, because like mentioned, their instincts kick

    What other witnesses do we have?? We have her online community, and to me it sounds like she met up with someone she knew from her online life. IF she left out part of her trip on purpose and didn't tell her family, well, we all know if we did that it'd be to do something stupid or risky. And meeting up with an online friend, alone, etc. is stupid and risky. Big question mark on the guy she may have met up with?? Perhaps she agreed to meet him at Cecil hotel...if he knew the area was a bit sleazy, maybe he was from LA? Perfect place for a murder. Just one of several others, along with several possible suspects both INSIDE and OUTSIDE of the hotel. No way police can narrow down with druggies, prostitution, crime etc.

    There's a picture of her on the net flashing a peace sign, in a hallway with a door number 5 in the background. Where is this?? Was this on her trip?? If so, who took the picture and where exactly was she??

    I read that her hotel key card and her watch were found in the water tank, as well as her clothing. I don't care about the clothing, I'm more interested in the other two things. Were those things in her pocket, if they were in there? What kind of watch was it? Did it slip off after she'd been lying dead in there? Were they left in the room of her lover, after they did some something? Did he steal her key card, and then she was going down to the lobby to get another because she lost it? Did he woo her back after reasoning with her about something? This is assuming she was on that floor for this mystery guy, which in itself is only a theory. Were the watch and key card dumped in there to destroy it as evidence??

    When I google David and yinna lam, her parents, all that comes up is their lawsuit they started in September 2013. It's been a year and a half since, and nothing? No word of that outcome or progress? When I look at images, all that comes up is pics of Elisa. No pics of them standing behind LAPD during a press conference? Why not??

    I remember reading some comment posted by a David mclelland or something of that spelling. He said he stayed at the hotel the same time she did, and the police didn't question him. He also said, the stairs would be the one way to not be seen by any video cameras, as he's walked up and down the stairs there and it's very easy to go by unnoticed. In addition, another person claims to have heard a loud noise the night she disappeared, possibly the cover of the water tank shutting? Do we know who this person is? I wonder, did police reenact the noise by closing the cover to the water tank, and compare it to what the person claims to have heard? That would be smart.
  • Strange case, what's strange is that no one was charged with her murder. Someone is holding a gun on her, she is assuming the position, if she had been hit she would have reacted with a scream, cry or fall to the ground. As a world traveller myself I know that the security watch your every move. They control the elevator the key cards, all the doors and locks They do love to play games on single woman eg. knocking on door and hiding, deactivating your key. On one occaison when I returned to my hotel at 3am after a night out, within 10 minutes of being back, there was a knock at my door it was the security man from the lobby, he asked if I wanted anything to drink, I did. He took me to the old original elevator, that still worked. He unlocked the bar area and gave me a bottle of whiskey, then we snuck into the kitchen and borrowed some food. By 4am I was bathing in the closed for the night hot tubs. If you get on good terms with the security or hotel manager they will show you every nook and cranny, locked door and secret passages of the hotel. I believe she came in contact with the security either one or two, I would say one, less risk.  As for her movements in the elevator, someone was holding the button. In my expirience even if you put the wrong pass code in, the door will close but the elevator won't move. When she was told to put her hands on her head (not a likely pose for the mirror) she did. It was all a game till she saw the gun then she straightened out, quick. But then she got back on and pressed all the buttons realized she it wasn't going to close, she couldn't escape. As she gets out the last time, "!her hands go back on her head!" as she is led away. Could be security, police man or man posing as an officer. As for her having no blood left or no drugs in her blood, I'm pretty close in saying drugs test can be done on hair follicles for up to 9 months after ingestion. Why all the conspiracies, the only thing I can think is that if it was a case of harvesting organs, it would be covered up by the authorities. If it was rich people gaming with humans it will never be solved, if it was a cop it won't get sloved. If It was staff or a resident, someone knows something and it will be solved. I wonder if the parents did an interview, what info would they have that could shed some more light on this dark situation. This case should be reopened, if the LAPD cared they could solve it. If they were smart they would be on your forum. What an intelligent thread compared to the ones I have seen. Single women travelling and online dating is so common and really no different from days of dating long ago just different methods. There will always be people out there with bad intentions. From studying her blogs and case, I may be wrong, sorry inadvance if anyone is offened. She may of added LA to her scheduale for business purposes. Hence the no job no school, plenty of fine things, travel and money. God Bless.  
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Elisa Lam Thoughts

    LAPD could have taken out part of video that showed someone else who was NOT considered to be a suspect, to protect their identity. Why not just blurry their face, and announce the elevator footage shows someone else, and we have ruled that that person is NOT a suspect. Why try to cover up an edit? What are we, idiots? If compressed a few clips together because those were the only clips that were of her etc. why not make that obvious? If it's a few clips, let us see each one, so we can have a better understanding of the situation. Why wouldn't they do that?

    IF she was delirious/on drugs/having a psychotic break etc. it would be hard to climb up the fire escape, up the ladder, then up another ladder, then very strategically and specifically lower herself into a small space. If she was on drugs, her movements wouldn't be able to be coordinated and skillful enough to even make it up there most likely. I've been high before, and couldn't even get off my couch without knocking a cup of water over or something. Bipolar runs big in my family, my sister takes same combo of drugs that was mentioned, Wellbutrin, lamictal. I've seen her off her meds and struggling to find right balance of medications, and my aunt has crazy bipolar. I've seen her manic and depressed sides, and while anything is possible, the elevator behavior does NOT look like she's having a psychotic break. It does look like she's wearing some guy clothing though, or maybe her sleeping clothing. Where was she coming from on the 14th floor. The roof? His room? Come on guys let's walk through this, take on her personality, where would we be going and coming from? If she walked left because she thought elevator wasn't working, why didn't she try the other elevator? Aren't there elevator logs of customer complaints when the elevator doesn't work?? Logs of maintenance checking it out??

    IF she was trying to commit suicide, why not just jump off the building? There are a million ways to commit suicide. When people are in that mindset they are NOT thinking oh gee I'll just drown myself in the water tank on top of the building! They are NOT thinking that clearly, just thinking in the exact moment. The time it took her to climb all the way to the water tank is enough time to still be alive if she wanted to die, she probably wouldn't waste any more time getting into the water tank when the roof is right there and she could just jump off. And no, people in this mindset don't think about gee if I go into this water tank and kill myself and close it, nobody will find my body for a while! People that are suicidal are NOT thinking that far ahead, or about anybody else. All they feel is the pain in the moment, and often make very rash, sudden decisions. I worked for a suicide hotline for six months, there is NOT that much thinking going on in the moment, just this feeling of pain or other emotions. Certainly not enough logic to strategize this kind of suicide. Also, most people that attempt suicide fail. IF this was her way of committing suicide, drowning with no weight is the worst, especially if you are making the choice to do it. Most people can't follow through, because like mentioned, their instincts kick

    What other witnesses do we have?? We have her online community, and to me it sounds like she met up with someone she knew from her online life. IF she left out part of her trip on purpose and didn't tell her family, well, we all know if we did that it'd be to do something stupid or risky. And meeting up with an online friend, alone, etc. is stupid and risky. Big question mark on the guy she may have met up with?? Perhaps she agreed to meet him at Cecil hotel...if he knew the area was a bit sleazy, maybe he was from LA? Perfect place for a murder. Just one of several others, along with several possible suspects both INSIDE and OUTSIDE of the hotel. No way police can narrow down with druggies, prostitution, crime etc.

    There's a picture of her on the net flashing a peace sign, in a hallway with a door number 5 in the background. Where is this?? Was this on her trip?? If so, who took the picture and where exactly was she??

    I read that her hotel key card and her watch were found in the water tank, as well as her clothing. I don't care about the clothing, I'm more interested in the other two things. Were those things in her pocket, if they were in there? What kind of watch was it? Did it slip off after she'd been lying dead in there? Were they left in the room of her lover, after they did some something? Did he steal her key card, and then she was going down to the lobby to get another because she lost it? Did he woo her back after reasoning with her about something? This is assuming she was on that floor for this mystery guy, which in itself is only a theory. Were the watch and key card dumped in there to destroy it as evidence??

    When I google David and yinna lam, her parents, all that comes up is their lawsuit they started in September 2013. It's been a year and a half since, and nothing? No word of that outcome or progress? When I look at images, all that comes up is pics of Elisa. No pics of them standing behind LAPD during a press conference? Why not??

    I remember reading some comment posted by a David mclelland or something of that spelling. He said he stayed at the hotel the same time she did, and the police didn't question him. He also said, the stairs would be the one way to not be seen by any video cameras, as he's walked up and down the stairs there and it's very easy to go by unnoticed. In addition, another person claims to have heard a loud noise the night she disappeared, possibly the cover of the water tank shutting? Do we know who this person is? I wonder, did police reenact the noise by closing the cover to the water tank, and compare it to what the person claims to have heard? That would be smart.
    Thanks for sharing these thoughts - they're incredibly interesting. You share a number of stuff that I hadn't come across before.

    You mentioned the picture of her giving a "peace" sign - do you have a link so I could study that image?

    The autopsy report doesn't mention anything in the tank with her other than her clothes, shoes, and body, so whereabouts did you read that her keycard and watch were also in the tank? 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Strange case, what's strange is that no one was charged with her murder. Someone is holding a gun on her, she is assuming the position, if she had been hit she would have reacted with a scream, cry or fall to the ground. As a world traveller myself I know that the security watch your every move. They control the elevator the key cards, all the doors and locks They do love to play games on single woman eg. knocking on door and hiding, deactivating your key. On one occaison when I returned to my hotel at 3am after a night out, within 10 minutes of being back, there was a knock at my door it was the security man from the lobby, he asked if I wanted anything to drink, I did. He took me to the old original elevator, that still worked. He unlocked the bar area and gave me a bottle of whiskey, then we snuck into the kitchen and borrowed some food. By 4am I was bathing in the closed for the night hot tubs. If you get on good terms with the security or hotel manager they will show you every nook and cranny, locked door and secret passages of the hotel. I believe she came in contact with the security either one or two, I would say one, less risk.  As for her movements in the elevator, someone was holding the button. In my expirience even if you put the wrong pass code in, the door will close but the elevator won't move. When she was told to put her hands on her head (not a likely pose for the mirror) she did. It was all a game till she saw the gun then she straightened out, quick. But then she got back on and pressed all the buttons realized she it wasn't going to close, she couldn't escape. As she gets out the last time, "!her hands go back on her head!" as she is led away. Could be security, police man or man posing as an officer. As for her having no blood left or no drugs in her blood, I'm pretty close in saying drugs test can be done on hair follicles for up to 9 months after ingestion. Why all the conspiracies, the only thing I can think is that if it was a case of harvesting organs, it would be covered up by the authorities. If it was rich people gaming with humans it will never be solved, if it was a cop it won't get sloved. If It was staff or a resident, someone knows something and it will be solved. I wonder if the parents did an interview, what info would they have that could shed some more light on this dark situation. This case should be reopened, if the LAPD cared they could solve it. If they were smart they would be on your forum. What an intelligent thread compared to the ones I have seen. Single women travelling and online dating is so common and really no different from days of dating long ago just different methods. There will always be people out there with bad intentions. From studying her blogs and case, I may be wrong, sorry inadvance if anyone is offened. She may of added LA to her scheduale for business purposes. Hence the no job no school, plenty of fine things, travel and money. God Bless.  
    Hello RobinsNest, I'm glad you've joined us and shared with us a whole ton of very interesting thoughts. Also, thank for considering our thread among the best on the subject - we try out very best to keep things respectful and intelligent on this website, and feel that mysteries are best approached in a logical and reasonable way. 

    I also find it very curious there seems an absence of any sounds or sights regarding her actual death - there clearly wasn't much of a struggle whatever ended up happening. You're on the mark with that one.

    I'm curious, however, about the "hold up" theory and that someone had a gun. To me it simply looked like she was goofing around in the elevator. What gave you the impression that she was in danger during that time? Also, another question - at some point in the security footage she makes a weird hand gesture as if petting an imaginary animal that's not there, so what do you think that meant, and why do you think that she did it? Wouldn't it be strange for her to stop to do that if she was being pursued with a weapon?

    I look forward to hearing your thoughts - you've reached the right place for this kind of discussion. 


    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • The LAPD wasnt about to go thru the time and resources to see if someone bought water, just on a hunch. no way. That would waste soo much resources over something without any evidence.

    Reply to Hehehaha:
    The picture of her in a hallway was from a previous trip. It looks like a selfie.

    There is a picture of her parents standing with LAPD from when she was still "missing", on the news. (I've also seen them in the wedding video of E.L's sister. o_o )

    Multiple sources have addressed that she had met up with someone, yet no one ever came forward as that person. -And if you ask me, she is interacting with a person in that video too.-
    Someone knows something. Someone had to see her last. And he or she has gotten away with murder, I doubt they're going to come forward now. Ugghhh! because I really want to know.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    It seems the LAPD wasn't about to go through any measure of effort in order to solve this case, however small or large. If it wasn't a case of intrigue as it seems to be, it might have been worth their time - haven't anecdotal circumstances and hunches provided many good leads in the past? 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Strange case, what's strange is that no one was charged with her murder. Someone is holding a gun on her, she is assuming the position, if she had been hit she would have reacted with a scream, cry or fall to the ground. As a world traveller myself I know that the security watch your every move. They control the elevator the key cards, all the doors and locks They do love to play games on single woman eg. knocking on door and hiding, deactivating your key. On one occaison when I returned to my hotel at 3am after a night out, within 10 minutes of being back, there was a knock at my door it was the security man from the lobby, he asked if I wanted anything to drink, I did. He took me to the old original elevator, that still worked. He unlocked the bar area and gave me a bottle of whiskey, then we snuck into the kitchen and borrowed some food. By 4am I was bathing in the closed for the night hot tubs. If you get on good terms with the security or hotel manager they will show you every nook and cranny, locked door and secret passages of the hotel. I believe she came in contact with the security either one or two, I would say one, less risk.  As for her movements in the elevator, someone was holding the button. In my expirience even if you put the wrong pass code in, the door will close but the elevator won't move. When she was told to put her hands on her head (not a likely pose for the mirror) she did. It was all a game till she saw the gun then she straightened out, quick. But then she got back on and pressed all the buttons realized she it wasn't going to close, she couldn't escape. As she gets out the last time, "!her hands go back on her head!" as she is led away. Could be security, police man or man posing as an officer. As for her having no blood left or no drugs in her blood, I'm pretty close in saying drugs test can be done on hair follicles for up to 9 months after ingestion. Why all the conspiracies, the only thing I can think is that if it was a case of harvesting organs, it would be covered up by the authorities. If it was rich people gaming with humans it will never be solved, if it was a cop it won't get sloved. If It was staff or a resident, someone knows something and it will be solved. I wonder if the parents did an interview, what info would they have that could shed some more light on this dark situation. This case should be reopened, if the LAPD cared they could solve it. If they were smart they would be on your forum. What an intelligent thread compared to the ones I have seen. Single women travelling and online dating is so common and really no different from days of dating long ago just different methods. There will always be people out there with bad intentions. From studying her blogs and case, I may be wrong, sorry inadvance if anyone is offened. She may of added LA to her scheduale for business purposes. Hence the no job no school, plenty of fine things, travel and money. God Bless.  


    Hello RobinsNest, I'm glad you've joined us and shared with us a whole ton of very interesting thoughts. Also, thank for considering our thread among the best on the subject - we try out very best to keep things respectful and intelligent on this website, and feel that mysteries are best approached in a logical and reasonable way. 

    I also find it very curious there seems an absence of any sounds or sights regarding her actual death - there clearly wasn't much of a struggle whatever ended up happening. You're on the mark with that one.

    I'm curious, however, about the "hold up" theory and that someone had a gun. To me it simply looked like she was goofing around in the elevator. What gave you the impression that she was in danger during that time? Also, another question - at some point in the security footage she makes a weird hand gesture as if petting an imaginary animal that's not there, so what do you think that meant, and why do you think that she did it? Wouldn't it be strange for her to stop to do that if she was being pursued with a weapon?

    I look forward to hearing your thoughts - you've reached the right place for this kind of discussion. 


    Hi Matt, Thank you. I wasn't thinking along the lines of a hold up at all. In my interpertation of the video is, she is talking with someone. Is she maybe a little drunk and stoned or drugged, yes, crazy and mental, no. It is possible whoever she was with that night, that something went wrong and she wasn't allowed to leave, So he/they took her clothes, so she put on his, so he/they said go ahead and go and she may have said " I will and I'm telling'. Then I think who ever she was with, pulled a gun on her when she put her hands on her head. The very last clip of her,,, her hands go back on her head a second time as she leaves, that is the back of her sandal (flip flop) They could have marched her up to the roof and forced her to go in. Someone shut that lid, not her, whether it was accidental drowning or not someone else was with her that night and are responsible for her death.The search should have consumed that whole floor where she was last seen. When she is talking to him/them at the elevator at first he/they were hidding around the corner that is why when she peeked out the first time, she didn't see anyone, then I believe he/they stood to the side, to discourage her from going wherever she was trying to go. I don't think she sensed danger untill she went back out after the elevator didn't close after she raised her hands up at which point I believed a gun was pulled, she jumped back on an pressed buttons, he/they may have said your not going anywhere, so she accepts defeat and leaves putting her hands back on her head. You only do that if someone has a gun on you. As for her movements at the elevator she is taliking to someone testing the sensors and counting numbers or events dramaticaly, looks like in fustration. I can't understand why there is no more footage of her upon check in and other elevator footage of her in the days prior to this. It's like the footage was simply used to discredit her. How the LAPD ruled this a suicide I will never understand that. This is a tough one, she never got the investigation she deserved. I would almost say this is a job for Anonymous or a psychic.
  • Hello All!

    It's strange that I've lived in Southern California most of my life and had never heard of this case until a week ago. Not surprisingly I've been OBSESSED going over these threads, gathering as much intel as I could absorb each late night. Much like the rest of you, I am mysteriously drawn to this case and cannot let it go. I frequent Los Angeles quite often- I know all too well the seedy side it has and how easy it could be to slip into unscrupulous hands.

    Anyways, I've seen a couple things referenced in other forums and I'd like to see what you all think of them. 

    1) There is an image of an alleged postcard from Elisa to one of her "friends". Does anyone know where this originated? There are a few reasons It draws my attention. First off- WHY IS IT CUT OFF!!!- so frustrating. It almost makes me want to believe that it isn't real. I'd really like to see what "Elisa" was alluding to with the whole "its creeping me" portion. There are a few other interesting connections however. The first is that it references "Ryan Gosling and.....Drive pilgramage". I found this particularly curious after looking through Elisa's older blog: 

    image
    Dated November 2011, the above link clearly shows that she is a fan of the movie. (Maybe it's a reach but the soundtrack at the very least) This makes me think that maybe the postcard is real. And also in a sick twist of fate, the director of the movie Drive has shown interest in directing a movie about Elisa Lam's death. 


    Something is up, right!?!?! Simulation theory is gaining massive ground in my eyes haha.


    2) Another thing that is driving me crazy is the graffiti located right next to the tank that her body was discovered in. "Fecto C*nt Her Suma" It seems like it may be a melding of Latin and foul english? What are your thoughts? 

    image
    Ive seen a lot of speculative translation online that is extremely unsettling- "perfect obedient c*unt" and other slight variations


    Some even point out that the writing style of the postcard matches the graffiti, although I feel like that is a stretch....
    Maybe the graffiti was already there...who knows...but you have to admit that it adds to the eerie-ness of the whole thing.

    Anyways guys that's all I have for now. Looking forward to seeing what you all think. 



  • I just googled anagram solver for fecto suma, it gave - cat mouse.

    Curious graffiti indeed. I did find an artist in Toronto named fecto.

     http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/fecto,graffiti/Timeline

    Does anyone else think the graffiti is related or a coincidence?

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Hello All!

    It's strange that I've lived in Southern California most of my life and had never heard of this case until a week ago. Not surprisingly I've been OBSESSED going over these threads, gathering as much intel as I could absorb each late night. Much like the rest of you, I am mysteriously drawn to this case and cannot let it go. I frequent Los Angeles quite often- I know all too well the seedy side it has and how easy it could be to slip into unscrupulous hands.

    Anyways, I've seen a couple things referenced in other forums and I'd like to see what you all think of them. 
    Welcome, IronHorse. I'm glad that you joined us and the discussion. There are indeed many minds here that are greatly interested in exploring this case.

    1.   Regarding the postcard, it's certainly interesting. I wonder if we could try to match it up with any of her handwriting found elsewhere to determine if it is indeed hers. As for the blog post you felt was related, it's curious that it also includes the statement: "Why would I ever think of killing myself?"

    2a.   At the very minimum, that graffiti indicates that people were getting up to the roof of the hotel without a problem. As for what it means, and if it's related, I see no clear connection (yet). The "cat and mouse" still leaves an extra "f" and feels arbitrary, but perhaps that's just me.

    b.   The link provided, where others are also pondering the meaning of the graffiti, contains her twitter account address:


    Which, to me, hosts at least two interesting things:

    - First, it was created exactly one year prior to her death.
    - Second, and this relates to a comment above pertaining her to attending unique and isolated bars in the city, but her final tweet is "SPEAKEASY". Since the above comment also mentions this place, I found that incredibly interesting.   
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    edited February 2015
    @hehehaha said:
    Hi guys, more to write later but just a quick few things. I've read this post from top to bottom, good ideas everyone has. Someone mentioned somewhere else-if she was murdered, and he/she stayed at the hotel or lives/lived there, they most likely would have bought several gallons of water knowing her body was or would be put into the water tank. Of course the murderer wouldnt want to drink from or bathe in the water, or I hope not. I wonder if cops ever looked around for someone that may have bought several gallons of water a few days before she was discovered missing? Another thing-I looked on one of her blog thingies, and
    she mentions going to a speakeasy. Well there is one called The Varnish I found on google maps. It is literally right next to the hotel. And here is some random list of cool/hidden bars in LA http://www.thrillist.com/drink/los-angeles/culver-city/la-secret-bars-hidden-entrance In addition, is there not footage from the bookstore?? Didn't she go in there several times when she was in LA?? Also, I wish her family could describe the last phone call they had with her. What did she talk about, how did she sound, did she mention anything etc.? I wrote a really long thought with my take on some things, will submit later. I wonder if there is footage from The Varnish or was? I wonder if anyone remembers her or saw her interacting with anyone???
    Calling you upon again for this comment - if we check her final tweet, it definitely seems like she went there:


    Good call. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator

    I just googled anagram solver for fecto suma, it gave - cat mouse.

    Curious graffiti indeed. I did find an artist in Toronto named fecto.

     http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/fecto,graffiti/Timeline

    Does anyone else think the graffiti is related or a coincidence?

    I'm not sure if it's related, but as I mentioned above, it shows that someone else was up there. I wonder if we could find out if anyone uses those tags in LA.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • I remember reading something about the graffiti and someone coming to the conclusion that it had already been there. I think it was that its tagged somewhere else on the room in photos dated way before her visit. But yea it shows that access to the roof isnt as limited as they wanted to make it seem.
  • Has anyone suggested that maybe she attempted to clog the water tank with her clothes? Maybe she was fully clothed when she was first inside? Was there any ladder or way to escape from inside the water tank? If not, she could have seen clogging the flow of the water as her only way.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Has anyone suggested that maybe she attempted to clog the water tank with her clothes? Maybe she was fully clothed when she was first inside? Was there any ladder or way to escape from inside the water tank? If not, she could have seen clogging the flow of the water as her only way.
    Hello Celicius, glad you've joined us.

    It would seem that there was no way to climb out of the tank once inside, as far as I know.

    I suppose it's a possibility, but when she was found, there was little to no water in her lungs (according to the autopsy report), which would suggest that she was probably dead prior to going into the tank.

    She also took off her shoes, which were also apparently in the tank, although I'm not sure if I saw that in the autopsy report. 

    If I were to venture a guess, I would think that she was dumped there after dying elsewhere.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • The autopsy report clearly states water in the lungs and cause of death as drowning - accidental.

    I've still never seen it confirmed whether she was found dressed or if her clothes were found floating free in the tank with her. Either way would change any possible theory about what happened.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    edited February 2015
    The autopsy report clearly states water in the lungs and cause of death as drowning - accidental.

    I've still never seen it confirmed whether she was found dressed or if her clothes were found floating free in the tank with her. Either way would change any possible theory about what happened.
    Just some thoughts -

    The autopsy report confirms she was naked when they found her. 

    The autopsy doesn't actually state that there is water in her lungs, only a "brown fluid", later described as "mucosa". The "accidental drowning" was tagged onto the report later on - someone had originally written "could not be explained".

    Even if the brown fluid was water, the autopsy states there was only 300cc in one lung, and 200cc in the other, which is peculiar if she had drowned. That sounds more like water simply entered into her throat after her body was tossed in, rather than someone inhaling water, or something built up in her body post-death.

    When I think about it, the only thing suggesting that she drowned at all was the context, but it's a very peculiar context consider all her clothes were tossed inside the tank with her. 

    If I'm missing anything though, be sure to point it out. It was a while ago that I read the whole thing and just did a re-skim.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • wisteria1234wisteria1234 Member, Permitted to post new threads
    Hi. Also new here to the forum. 


    I see a lot of people posting either/or theories on whether it was suicide or murder. Any chance it could have been both? There are a lot of assisted suicide cases that I've heard about on and off in the news. Could that have been that she was meeting online with someone who was encouraging her to end her life and was willing to help in some way? They would have to dig up some evidence though of her online chats. It also makes sense that she would not tell anyone about the side trip to L.A if that was actually her intended last stop rather than what she had communicated to everyone. They have very little evidence, but I feel if it was suicide, she had help.

    As for her posts on Tumblr about guys "stalking" her, her comments seemed more like she felt that these guys were just very aggressive in their advances. It doesn't rule them out from being culprits, but I know that some men can be very pushy but not to the extent that they'd do physical harm. Of course that doesn't make their advances any less unwelcome. Her comments seemed to indicate she was just put-off by how aggressive some guys can be and had trouble blowing them off. I know someone with bi-polar disorder who has the same problem in not being able to ignore or snub people. She just normally gives in and has a chat with whoever is harassing her. She is just unable to say "no" or at least ask for help from someone nearby.

    From what I saw in the video footage, she (if that was really her, because it could have been anyone) was without a doubt experiencing some sights and sounds that were not really there. She walks into the elevator with an air of purpose not really panicked or scared looking. She then proceeds to push the buttons from top to bottom and sees that the doors will not close. She seems to think someone is playing a prank on her and she jumps out to see if anyone is there. She seems put-off that someone would follow her. She exits and re-enters the elevator appearing very confused because it appears no one is there. Her hands are in her hair when she goes back inside. You can tell she doesn't feel well. She pushes more buttons and exits. Then she starts waving her hands around and she stoops as though she sees something lower to the floor and passes her hand through trying to see if it's really there or it's her imagination. Then she gets back up convinced that whatever she saw was not really there. She continues to wave her hands around and then seems to be bending her fingers back trying to figure out what to do with herself because she realizes to some degree that she is not in a good situation. She puts her hands up to her head pondering what she could possibly do. She can't go anywhere since the elevator won't move. Not back to her room or the lobby for help using the elevator. As far as she knows, she can only take the stairs or some other route and so she walks away.
    That's about as much as I get from the video. 

    I am not ruling out foul play because people prey on the weak. If she had a history of mental illness, it makes  sense that someone would see her as easy prey. I have a friend who is bi-polar. She was once told to take down her firewall by someone online. They told her she had a virus but the culprit was a hacker and they hacked her laptop. She has fallen victim to money scams by people working triangle schemes and got involved with sketchy men who took advantage of her used her for sex. She often asked why this was happening to her. I tried to explain that you can't trust people, but whether she understood that, I can never tell. She had also once been raped. From what I have read on this forum, someone mentioned Elisa having no filter and was talking loudly in the bookstore. That sounds a lot like the girl I know. My friend told me that that was something that occurs when you are not taking your medications on time. There is a mention of Elisa having been raped before. Could that have triggered a relapse? It can't possibly have been easy to live with that memory while having a mental illness. It makes sense that a person with a mental illness would be a target for violence.
    Rather than deny that (she was taking the medications for her condition), I think her friends and family would benefit from acknowledging that she was in danger from the very beginning. Not to place blame, but to see that she was more vulnerable than the average person and it's possible that someone else (rather than family and friends) saw her distress which could have resulted in her death. 

    I don't see how she could have known how to access the roof in her condition and to climb inside a water tank after taking off all of her clothes and go as far as bringing them inside with her? She would have had to have planned such a thing from the very beginning like have blueprints to the hotel or had someone tell her about the water tanks. At some point between the elevator and the tank, someone helped/forced her to get there. Away from the camera, there may have been someone waiting for her to give up on the elevator. Maybe they knew she was hallucinating. If she was feeling unwell, wouldn't she first try to access the lobby or go back to her room? That should be her first instinct. Why would she have felt the need to climb to the roof? 

    Does anyone know the floor at which she got on the elevator? She was staying on the fourth right? If it was a different floor that she was getting on from, what was she doing there? 
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Hi. Also new here to the forum. 


    I see a lot of people posting either/or theories on whether it was suicide or murder. Any chance it could have been both? There are a lot of assisted suicide cases that I've heard about on and off in the news. Could that have been that she was meeting online with someone who was encouraging her to end her life and was willing to help in some way? They would have to dig up some evidence though of her online chats. It also makes sense that she would not tell anyone about the side trip to L.A if that was actually her intended last stop rather than what she had communicated to everyone. They have very little evidence, but I feel if it was suicide, she had help.

    As for her posts on Tumblr about guys "stalking" her, her comments seemed more like she felt that these guys were just very aggressive in their advances. It doesn't rule them out from being culprits, but I know that some men can be very pushy but not to the extent that they'd do physical harm. Of course that doesn't make their advances any less unwelcome. Her comments seemed to indicate she was just put-off by how aggressive some guys can be and had trouble blowing them off. I know someone with bi-polar disorder who has the same problem in not being able to ignore or snub people. She just normally gives in and has a chat with whoever is harassing her. She is just unable to say "no" or at least ask for help from someone nearby.

    From what I saw in the video footage, she (if that was really her, because it could have been anyone) was without a doubt experiencing some sights and sounds that were not really there. She walks into the elevator with an air of purpose not really panicked or scared looking. She then proceeds to push the buttons from top to bottom and sees that the doors will not close. She seems to think someone is playing a prank on her and she jumps out to see if anyone is there. She seems put-off that someone would follow her. She exits and re-enters the elevator appearing very confused because it appears no one is there. Her hands are in her hair when she goes back inside. You can tell she doesn't feel well. She pushes more buttons and exits. Then she starts waving her hands around and she stoops as though she sees something lower to the floor and passes her hand through trying to see if it's really there or it's her imagination. Then she gets back up convinced that whatever she saw was not really there. She continues to wave her hands around and then seems to be bending her fingers back trying to figure out what to do with herself because she realizes to some degree that she is not in a good situation. She puts her hands up to her head pondering what she could possibly do. She can't go anywhere since the elevator won't move. Not back to her room or the lobby for help using the elevator. As far as she knows, she can only take the stairs or some other route and so she walks away.
    That's about as much as I get from the video. 

    I am not ruling out foul play because people prey on the weak. If she had a history of mental illness, it makes  sense that someone would see her as easy prey. I have a friend who is bi-polar. She was once told to take down her firewall by someone online. They told her she had a virus but the culprit was a hacker and they hacked her laptop. She has fallen victim to money scams by people working triangle schemes and got involved with sketchy men who took advantage of her used her for sex. She often asked why this was happening to her. I tried to explain that you can't trust people, but whether she understood that, I can never tell. She had also once been raped. From what I have read on this forum, someone mentioned Elisa having no filter and was talking loudly in the bookstore. That sounds a lot like the girl I know. My friend told me that that was something that occurs when you are not taking your medications on time. There is a mention of Elisa having been raped before. Could that have triggered a relapse? It can't possibly have been easy to live with that memory while having a mental illness. It makes sense that a person with a mental illness would be a target for violence.
    Rather than deny that (she was taking the medications for her condition), I think her friends and family would benefit from acknowledging that she was in danger from the very beginning. Not to place blame, but to see that she was more vulnerable than the average person and it's possible that someone else (rather than family and friends) saw her distress which could have resulted in her death. 

    I don't see how she could have known how to access the roof in her condition and to climb inside a water tank after taking off all of her clothes and go as far as bringing them inside with her? She would have had to have planned such a thing from the very beginning like have blueprints to the hotel or had someone tell her about the water tanks. At some point between the elevator and the tank, someone helped/forced her to get there. Away from the camera, there may have been someone waiting for her to give up on the elevator. Maybe they knew she was hallucinating. If she was feeling unwell, wouldn't she first try to access the lobby or go back to her room? That should be her first instinct. Why would she have felt the need to climb to the roof? 

    Does anyone know the floor at which she got on the elevator? She was staying on the fourth right? If it was a different floor that she was getting on from, what was she doing there? 
    Welcome, Wisteria - glad you joined us and this ever-growing conversation.

    Interesting, I never heard that she was raped, and the autopsy report (if it can indeed be trusted) suggested there was no sexual trauma (or indeed trauma of any kind) - do you have any sources you could point us in the direction of so we can investigate that further? Of course, as you suggested regarding your friend, if she was indeed that type of person, I can imagine you're close to the mark that people would want to abuse her. Although, she seemed to be able to differentiate between those taking advantage of her and "real friend" according to her blogs. Then again, what she wrote and real life could be very different things. It seems every time we try to come to a conclusion, we're confronted with a fork in the road.

    I feel the hotel video is missing so much context that it's hard to know what she's thinking or doing. It's been heavily edited, and additionally, has no sound. Was she playing around with people off-camera? Were they on-camera and deleted? Was she stoned out of her mind? Was she having a psychotic breakdown from not adhering to her medicine regiment? All could be true, independently and simultaneously. She frequently mentioned on her blog that she didn't feel well, both psychologically and physically. She complained of bouts of depression, but more interestingly, of episodes of dizziness, clouded thought and general malaise. 

    Nevertheless, interesting input that I'm glad you shared with us. 

    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • wisteria1234wisteria1234 Member, Permitted to post new threads
    edited February 2015
    Thanks for having this discussion up. It's amazing to see people are still discussing something that happened two years ago. The human capacity to care is astonishing. I had some questions and comments regarding possible rape among other things.

    Was the autopsy reliable?: The rape was something that Elisa had blogged about that had occurred before her travels according to some commentators, although I'd have to find actual evidence for that. I was not referring to the autopsy, but since you bring it up, is it possible that anything caught under her nails got washed/rinsed away in the water tank? They mentioned skin separation. I don't know how easy it is to prove rape if someone used a condom and especially three weeks after the assault and after a body had been submerged in water for weeks. Considering she appeared really out of it in the video, it may have been relatively easy to take advantage of her without much of a struggle thereby not causing injury to her body. Was it confirmed that she really did have enough water in her lungs to prove death by drowning or is what I read about 300cc of brown fluid in her lungs more accurate? And since they had to cut open the tank to get her out, how much of the water in the tank were they able to sample?

    Friends/enemies: As for her blogging about knowing who her real friends were, it is relatively easy to fool someone into thinking they are a friend. Whether she actually knew what she was talking about remains to be seen. I have read that bi-polar disorder can make a person perceive extreme goodness or extreme evil especially during a manic phase and they often have trouble perceiving a balanced view of people. A person trying to help them can be perceived as a bad person. This changes from time to time. If you go through bi-polar message forums, this is often the case. Friends and family have to deal with roller-coaster perceptions as they are painted as good or evil depending on the situation. From her blog, she experiences extreme feelings towards the people she perceives to be her enemies. Unless she goes into detail as to where the feelings come from, it's difficult to make a fair analysis. It is often very painful for the people involved. Of course if she had people betray her, it would have further complicated things. 

    Adherence to meds: She was also very young (21) so I wonder about her patience to stick to her medication schedule. My friend who is bi-polar has often had problems with that. She rarely took her anti-psychotics because a major side effect was weight gain which is a major factor as to why a young girl in her prime would choose not to take them. Especially if it could interfere with dating. The footage shows a relatively thin woman who does not seem to be having this side effect of weight gain. There are other side effects such as drowsiness that a person may want to avoid. 

    Alcohol: We don't know if she had type 1 or type 2 BP. I'm no expert but if she was type 2 I don't see how she could have been hallucinating unless she had been taking another type of substance other than her regular medications. The alcohol they mention being in her blood could have been a remainder of something that had a hallucinogen mixed in and was difficult to detect. That would have been the easiest way to get something in her system. But she may have had another underlying condition that caused that elevator scenario. 

    Person #2: I suspect someone was following her. Some people say that she was on the ninth floor. Is there supporting evidence to that? If she was on the ninth floor, what was she doing up there? Her room was on the fourth floor. Was she visiting someone in one of the upper floor rooms? Was she a fan of the occult and exploring to see if she could find any ghosts? Maybe hotel staff or people in the bookstore heard her mention something about exploring the hotel or ask questions about it. Maybe she was curious about its residents. Not everyone is a traveling guest at the hotel. Some people live there and pay rent. 

    Where is her phone?: She also lost her phone during her stay at Cecil and blogged about it. Her family claims they lost contact with her on the 31st of January. If there is a time lapse between the time her phone was lost and the time she disappeared, how was she contacting her family after she lost her phone? Did she use the phone at the front desk? Did she really lose her phone or hide the phone somewhere or give it to someone for safekeeping? 

    The skinny dipping theory: A couple people mentioned she just wanted to go swimming which was maybe nothing more than trolling, but if she meant to climb into the tank in the buff for fun, why would she take her things in with her? If it were just a bizarre swimming thing and she planned to get back out, the clothes would be left outside the tank so she'd have dry clothes to get back into. If she didn't plan on getting back out (suicide), they'd still be outside the tank or at least she'd still be wearing them. 

    The feeling hot from a "bad trip" theory: If you felt hot from a "bad trip" and felt you needed to undress would you really go as far as taking your watch off and would you carry your clothes in with you? It seems like her clothes were thrown in after she got in or thrown in before she got in so she would chase after them; not wanting to roam around the hotel naked. If the clothes were thrown in before, it would explain why she would go into the tank begrudgingly even while confused. If they were thrown in after, it is harder to explain how she got inside. Any different theories as to why the clothes were inside with her?

    Is the investigation itself closed or are they still searching? I hope they haven't given up.

    I've just about exhausted all of my ideas into this forum at this point but I will be checking in for updates. 
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Reliable autopsy?: The rape was something that Elisa had blogged about that had occurred before her travels according to some commentators, although I'd have to find actual evidence for that. I was not referring to the autopsy, but since you bring it up, is it possible that anything caught under her nails got washed/rinsed away in the water tank? They mentioned skin separation. I don't know how easy it is to prove rape if someone used a condom and especially three weeks after the assault and after a body had been submerged in water for weeks. Considering she appeared really out of it in the video, it may have been relatively easy to take advantage of her without much of a struggle thereby not causing injury to her body. Was it confirmed that she really did have enough water in her lungs to prove death by drowning or is what I read about 300cc of brown fluid in her lungs more accurate?

    Friends/enemies: As for her blogging about knowing who her real friends were, it is relatively easy to fool someone into thinking they are a friend. Whether she actually knew what she was talking about remains to be seen. I have read that bi-polar disorder can make a person perceive extreme goodness or extreme evil especially during a manic phase and they often have trouble perceiving a balanced view of people. A person trying to help them can be perceived as a bad person. This changes from time to time. If you go through bi-polar message forums, this is often the case. Friends and family have to deal with roller-coaster perceptions as they are painted as good or evil depending on the situation. From her blog, she experiences extreme feelings towards the people she perceives to be her enemies. Unless she goes into detail as to where the feelings come from, it's difficult to make a fair analysis. It is often very painful for the people involved. Of course if she had people betray her, it would have further complicated things. 

    Adherence to meds: She was also very young (21) so I wonder about her patience to stick to her medication schedule. My friend who is bi-polar has often had problems with that. She rarely took her anti-psychotics because a major side effect was weight gain which is a major factor as to why a young girl in her prime would choose not to take them. Especially if it could interfere with dating. The footage shows a relatively thin woman who does not seem to be having this side effect of weight gain. There are other side effects such as drowsiness that a person may want to avoid. 

    Alcohol: We don't know if she had type 1 or type 2 BP. I'm no expert but if she was type 2 I don't see how she could have been hallucinating unless she had been taking another type of substance other than her regular medications. The alcohol they mention being in her blood could have been a remainder of something that had a hallucinogen mixed in and was difficult to detect. That would have been the easiest way to get something in her system. But she may have had another underlying condition that caused that elevator scenario. 

    Person #2: I suspect someone was following her. Some people say that she was on the ninth floor. Is there supporting evidence to that? If she was on the ninth floor, what was she doing up there? Her room was on the fourth floor. Was she visiting someone in one of the upper floor rooms? Was she a fan of the occult and exploring to see if she could find any ghosts? Maybe hotel staff or people in the bookstore heard her mention something about exploring the hotel or ask questions about it. Maybe she was curious about its residents. Not everyone is a traveling guest at the hotel. Some people live there and pay rent. 

    Where is her phone?: She also lost her phone during her stay at Cecil and blogged about it. Her family claims they lost contact with her on the 31st of January. If there is a time lapse between the time her phone was lost and the time she disappeared, how was she contacting her family after she lost her phone? Did she use the phone at the front desk? Did she really lose her phone or hide the phone somewhere or give it to someone for safekeeping? 

    The skinny dipping theory: A couple people mentioned she just wanted to go swimming which was maybe nothing more than trolling, but if she meant to climb into the tank in the buff for fun, why would she take her things in with her? If it were just a bizarre swimming thing and she planned to get back out, the clothes would be left outside the tank so she'd have dry clothes to get back into. If she didn't plan on getting back out (suicide), they'd still be outside the tank or at least she'd still be wearing them. 

    The feeling hot from a "bad trip" theory: Wouldn't it take an articulate person to take her watch and clothes off and remember to throw everything into the tank first before getting in? If you felt hot from a "bad trip" and felt you needed to undress would you really go as far as taking your watch off and would you carry your clothes with you into the tank? It seems like her clothes were thrown in after she got in or thrown in before she got in so she would chase after them, not wanting to roam around the hotel naked. If the clothes were thrown in before, it would explain why she would go into the tank begrudgingly even while confused. If they were thrown in after, it is harder to explain how she got inside. Any different theories as to why the clothes were inside with her?




    Regarding what the autopsy said was in her lungs - one lung had 300cc of "brown fluid", and the other had 200cc. Perhaps it was indeed enough to drown her, or perhaps that's simply what entered into her body once it was tossed into the tank. It's very difficult to tell. The autopsy report (if you look a number of comments up) first suggested the cause of death was "unknown", then it magically became a drowning out of context, rather than evidence. 

    All those questions you pose also cross my mind. Every possibility seems to be countered by what was reported, and nothing really fits, so it's puzzles the brain.

    I suppose the following possibilities arise regarding why her clothes were in there with her:

    1.   She tossed her clothes in first, then jumped in.
    2.   Someone tossed her into the tank, then tossed her clothes in.
    3.   She was wearing her clothes while in the tank, then took them off.
    4.   The autopsy report is incorrect, since we've seen no actual visual evidence of anything.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • wisteria1234wisteria1234 Member, Permitted to post new threads
    edited February 2015

    Is the water level in the tank low enough at any point for a person to undress themselves while inside? That's something I wonder. One of the guests heard a loud noise from the roof so whether that was a hatch slamming shut or her falling into a near empty tank is of question. If the water level inside is never low enough for a person to stand, they wouldn't be able to undress at least as thoroughly as she did. And her watch was taken off as well. It takes some dexterity to remove a watch while swimming in ten feet of water in a cramped enclosed space. But that may need some demonstrating. But if the water had been low I can see that happening. 

    To toss everything in including your watch before jumping in just confuses me. If she didn't want to be found, I would understand as she would not want to leave anything out for someone to see, but she looked so out of it in the elevator that I can't see how someone in her state would think as far as that. 

    If they could solve that other case involving the actress in Mexico City it might help, but it took them over a year to find her. If it is proven to be murder, it is definitely likely that EL was killed. But finding video footage of something that happened a year ago? Is that even possible?
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator

    Is the water level in the tank low enough at any point for a person to undress themselves while inside? That's something I wonder. One of the guests heard a loud noise from the roof so whether that was a hatch slamming shut or her falling into a near empty tank is of question. If the water level inside is never low enough for a person to stand, they wouldn't be able to undress at least as thoroughly as she did. And her watch was taken off as well. It takes some dexterity to remove a watch while swimming in ten feet of water in a cramped enclosed space. But that may need some demonstrating. But if the water had been low I can see that happening. 

    To toss everything in including your watch before jumping in just confuses me. If she didn't want to be found, I would understand as she would not want to leave anything out for someone to see, but she looked so out of it in the elevator that I can't see how someone in her state would think as far as that. 

    If they could solve that other case involving the actress in Mexico City it might help, but it took them over a year to find her. If it is proven to be murder, it is definitely likely that EL was killed. 
    Actually now that you mention it, I could have sworn somewhere that guests heard a "loud thud" or something of the sort around when Elisa disappeared. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • wisteria1234wisteria1234 Member, Permitted to post new threads
    edited February 2015

    Who originally said it was her in the elevator?  I have never read the autopsy report, where can I see it?

    I don't think it was her in the elevator. In her blog she goes on and on about how large her legs are and that she has cankles. The woman in the elevator has very skinny legs and small ankles. Women who don't have definition in their ankles do not get it by losing weight, they just have stocky legs due to their build. This woman does not, completely the opposite.

    She also said she does not like to show her legs, and this woman in Februrary was wearing a skirt. When a woman is self conscious of a body part, she is pretty diligent not to show unless necessary (ie: 90 degrees in summer).

    From her blog: 
    "I am terribly self conscious of my legs. I find them disproportional to the rest of my body making me look chunkier than I am. And no matter how much I exercised, they never became any leaner. If I am not too careful, I fall into the trap of cankles.

     I'm sick of the cold weather and wish for warmer weather. Warmer weather meaning dresses. Oh wait, no I don't like dresses because that means exposing my legs."
    One's perception of their body is subjective. What you or I see as small ankles might not have been small by her standards. You can see her ankles in a Facebook graduation photo as she is jumping up. They didn't look big to me. I forgot who posted the link. It implies she might have had body image issues. She was pretty but self depreciating about her looks.
  • wisteria1234wisteria1234 Member, Permitted to post new threads
    edited February 2015
     


    We have no idea what condition her body was in, and neither would her family, since they probably wouldn't have wanted to look at a dissolved corpse that was once their daughter. 



    Wisteria1234: Apparently her family identified her from body markings. Was that indirectly from listening to a description of her markings or from seeing her?

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    @gypsywar

    Wisteria1234 asked:

    "Apparently her family identified her from body markings. Was that indirectly from listening to a description of her markings or from seeing her?"

    Based on your comment of:

    "We have no idea what condition her body was in, and neither would her family, since they probably wouldn't have wanted to look at a dissolved corpse that was once their daughter."

    I just included it here again in case it got lost in the quoting system somewere.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • MissMelindresMissMelindres Member
    edited February 2015

    Hello. I'm new here.First of all i want to apologize for my english, my natural language is spanish... But i'll do my best. I want to share a Little bit of my point of view in this matter... It so extense, so i will go for parts. :)
    For the beginning i guess she was in a rude place and i guess she knew that and she
    was in there because she thought it would be exciting being in a place with
    that kind of history.

    I thought that because at this point all we know that she was a good reader and a
    curious girl with a cultural interest.
    But then i thought maybe i was wrong:

    She was just a girl looking for the cheapest and good looking option in LA and
    looking for she found "Stay on Main" Hotel/Hostal. As far as weknow
    the Hotel/Hostal changed its name in 2011, 2 years before all that stuff and it
    has too many reviews on internet not related with its criminal and violent
    past, just some things about bugs, small rooms and not nice places around.

    (In my case, i am obsessed with "Black Dahlia" and her murder and i never
    knew anything about the Cecil's until i had read about Elisa's case)

    So... She was there just because that particular Hotel/Hostal was cheap and according
    its internet page Hispter/chic, a some way interesting piece of history in LA
    center from 20's.

    If i would a Scott Fitzgerald big fan, the Hotel would be a dreaming place for me,
    and hey, She was a real big Scott's fan, i mean, She had different edition of
    the same book: "Great Gastby"!



     Why she decided to go
    to LA?

    I guess LA was in her plans at the beginning, just what she said on her
    "Tumblr" post. Maybe the reason was someone or simply just for fun, i
    mean, it's LA sounds great for me! Maybe 'cause im not from United States and
    just sounds nice... Beaches, Mountains, celebrity people, great nighttime...

    On the other hand, when i saw her Twitter account i've noticed she had 'Twitter
    friends' on LA, some of them are people she "faved" weeks earlier and
    they 'faved' her too. (It's a shame that her facebook page no longer exist
    because according some news there was pics about the travel in there)

    At this point, i need to be clear with something:

    i don't care if all this thing is about 
    "Wag the dog" maybe it is, but is a fact that girl is dead and
    i love the "Noir Novels", in fact i am working on another case: Starr
    Faithfull. So i really don't care those theories related with TB, Government,
    etc.

    Ok, now... For me this history is
    something like that:

    1. She is Bipolar

    Yes, is clear according the drugs in her prescription.In fact, being bipolar is not incapacitating, it's just uncomfortable, but it's
    all. You don't have hallucinations, you only think a lot and very fast in
    everything, mostly you're thinking about wasting your life or being
    improductive at the end. I know that because i'm bipolar, and its ok... I have
    a job, a life, fun, sadness.

    So i guess she didn't commit that kind of suicide, because it's a very complicated
    way for a bipolar passive girl who likes fashion, and for sure, it's a
    completly non aesthetic way for die.
    I
    guess she decided to trip alone and she had a route including LA, thats sounds
    like she was in a hipomaniac fase which is risky for a bipolar because we take
    a lot of danger choices even when we know are dangerous, and for us it's look
    normal. :)



    2. The elevator

    It’s so exciting for me to think about "the elevator game", but hey:
    that's not real (Besides i don't want to try). So the tape was altered in some
    way, and the other thing is we coulnd't know for sure if the girl in that tape
    was Elisa or just someone else who had a similar clothes.

    What if she was an actress wearing the same clothes they found on the water tank
    after Elisa's death?What if the tape was just a fake lead to create
    distraction?
    Maybe the murderer worked on it before or after her death because as we know the girl
    in that tape could be any asian girl. As they used to say: "this asian
    people, they look all the same for me" and i guess is the same for everyone
    who may watch this kind of tape with awful resolution: She is an asian girl
    with the same clothes found in the water tank, it's too easy to think she is
    Elisa.



    2.1. Are we sure these clothes are from her?

    I mean, maybe they (i think the murder was done at least for 2 person) put this
    clothes on an actress in the elevator and she looked like the character in
    "Dark Water" movie and she played some silly Korean movie’s game (The
    Elevator Game). Are we sure than Elisa is not dead for that moment?

    I know it's creepy to think someone could be so mean and sick, but we face it,
    sick people live in LA. Remember the case of Luka Magnotta for example. I don't
    know, too many people in LA is looking for something, too many sad and
    frustrated people obsessed with all kind of things about cinema, acting, being
    famous... On a very sick way. So, the girl in the elevator was Elisa or was
    just another asian girl (actress), looking like the girl on that movie because
    someone maybe paid her for that.

    I don't know, maybe is she (Elisa) on the tape... but if she wasn't, had her
    parents noticed?
    Hmmm
    on my opinion, for a fashion lover and a very "gooddressed" girl, she
    looks awful in that tape, even her hair...

    To be continued... :)

    ¡Saludos!








  • Hello everybody. I have no idea HOW the name of Elisa Lam came to my brain, but for the past days, and strangely enough it has just been 2 years since her body was found, I haven't been able to stop thinking about this case all day and night long.

    I just registered to come with my opinion after reading all I could.

    I must say also that I have had many nightmares about this story. I don't consider myself a "medium" or a "psychic" but I am a VERY sensitive person, so I will assume that my nightmares are from reading in bed. So here goes my thoughts, a mixed of what I have been dreaming and reading.

    I do think Elisa existed. I am, myself, a very private person. I have gone under a "stage name" for about 10 years, never using my real name, never posting a public picture of my face. I have had popular blogs for several years, again, never really revealing who I am, even though I write very personal stuff.

    I think that Elisa met someone online. That someone was somebody that worked in the Cecil Hotel. I can't find another reason WHY a woman traveling alone would stay in that hotel. Why aren't there more surveillance from the other days? I think that that person working there deleted it.

    I think that Elisa and that person got very close. Some kind of connection because of her blog, her depression, you name it. That person made Elisa stop taking her medicines for some reason. Maybe they both thought she would be better without? maybe they were in love and "he" thought he could cure her from her illness?

    Anyway, she stopped taking the medicines WHILE being in LA, and that made her very vulnerable.

    Then there is another person in my picture of what happened. That person had a close connection with "suspect 1" and he did not like what was going on.

    Now let me jump at the elevator scene. Elisa is NOT wearing her glasses. That is why she need to get really close to the panel, to see the numbers clearly. She then push the floor button and then the closing door button and waits for it to close. Her friend (Suspect 1) is, say from the reception, holding the door and he says "Elisa!".. she gets surprised and gets out of the elevator to see who is calling from her. Suspect 1 keeps joking and tell her that he can see her! Elisa NEVER looks up to the camera on the corner, it seems like she doesn't even know a camera is there. She moves to the side and then to the corner. Does she smile? to me it seems like she is smiling. She is not scared at all, that tells me she KNOWS the person that is talking to her.

    She goes out again. She doesn't understand where the voice is coming from, but for some reason she doesn't believe it is from the elevator, she never sees around the elevator, but she looks carefully outside. She is playful, somebody is playing a joke on her and she is playing back. 

    She then stays outside. And here comes suspect 2. She tells him that suspect 1 is talking to her. He tells her he is joking. Elisa put her hands on her head like "of course! how didn't I think of it?". They talk a little and she goes back to the elevator, kind of smiling, holds herself on the door thinking how silly she is and not completely ok because she is not taking her medication, so she has been a little light headed all the time.

    She goes back in to the elevator, again, she goes closer to the numbers to see properly. She pushes 4 as I can see. Can Suspect 2 have told her that she should do that, kind of as a code to get faster where she is going? or something "fixing" the doors not closing? anyway, Elisa tries the same sequence several times, it doesn't work and she comes out again to talk to suspect 2. He is standing all the time out of camera. And Elisa keeps a  distance ALL the time, even though it is obvious that she is talking to somebody hidden on the right side. Why the distance? can it be that he has a dog? a big dog? That will make ME keep a good distance. Can it be that the dog is barking at her? and she is trying to calm down the dog with the circular movement of her hands at the same time as she is explaining something to the Suspect 2? She then keeps explaining something to suspect 2, as her body keeps moving like she is talking.

    Suspect 2 tells her then to take the stairs. He waits until the doors close to follow her. I am assuming that the crime happens right after this (of course, it could have happened any time). Somehow, he convinces her to go up to the roof. Elisa is unaware of suspect 2 disliking her. He has a card to enter the roof top and there things go wrong.

    Suspect 1 lets the elevator go when he sees Elisa has left.

    I am not sure how and why, but I imagine the big dog chasing Elisa. She has nowhere to run, so she climbs to the tank and enters it. I am thinking the fear gives her an adrenalin kick that makes her able to climb AND lift the heavy lid. She is scared and doesn't say anything, waiting inside the tank. Suspect 2 gets the dog and don't see Elisa, or does know that she is inside the tank but doesn't care. He takes the dog and leaves. I don't know how full the tank is, but I can imagine it is not full enough for Elisa to reach the opening and get out. Her wet clothes are heavy, so she takes it off, hoping to float better, maybe be less heavy and manage to get out, but she can't.

    Suspect 1 and 2 meet. Here my theory doesn't have much hold, but say that suspect 1 doesn't really know what has happened to Elise. He sees her acting "silly" after his joke in the elevator, but he may or not know about suspect 2 and Elise going to the top. Suspect 2 goes to the top roof again looking for Elisa. He realizes or he already know she is inside the water tank. He takes a ladder and climbs to the opening. Elisa has been on the water for a few hours maybe, she is tired and cold. He tells her to reach his hand and when she does that, he lifts her up and cover her mouth and nose. I can imagine a big security guy, strong enough to lift her. She dies of a dry asphyxia when he covers her mouth and nose and he lets her fall into the tank and closes the lid.

    Suspect 1 of course notices Elisa is gone missing. Suspect 2 tells him "I told you so, she was wicked, don't say anything or people will link you to the disappearance" so both shut up. Any evidence of Elise, recordings and surveillance is deleted. Maybe some evidence from her room, like her phone, they make it disappear. And they just wait. Suspect 1 is terrified of police asking him, but there is not really any links to him. Suspect 2 knows there is nothing on him. 

    I think that suspect 2 has good connections with the police. That's why the investigation is SO sloppy, I mean, she is found in the roof top with ONLY access from a fire escape AND the workers cards and no one working there was questioned? also the autopsy is pretty sloppy, like someone saying: yeah, put whatever basic on, we won't investigate much further. And why did it took so long the report?

    well... I hope that you don't find my theories too dumb :-) it has been a pleasure to read you all and excuse my mediocre english!
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator

    Hello. I'm new here.First of all i want to apologize for my english, my natural language is spanish... But i'll do my best. I want to share a Little bit of my point of view in this matter... It so extense, so i will go for parts. :)
    For the beginning i guess she was in a rude place and i guess she knew that and she
    was in there because she thought it would be exciting being in a place with
    that kind of history.

    I thought that because at this point all we know that she was a good reader and a
    curious girl with a cultural interest.
    But then i thought maybe i was wrong:

    She was just a girl looking for the cheapest and good looking option in LA and
    looking for she found "Stay on Main" Hotel/Hostal. As far as weknow
    the Hotel/Hostal changed its name in 2011, 2 years before all that stuff and it
    has too many reviews on internet not related with its criminal and violent
    past, just some things about bugs, small rooms and not nice places around.

    (In my case, i am obsessed with "Black Dahlia" and her murder and i never
    knew anything about the Cecil's until i had read about Elisa's case)

    So... She was there just because that particular Hotel/Hostal was cheap and according
    its internet page Hispter/chic, a some way interesting piece of history in LA
    center from 20's.

    If i would a Scott Fitzgerald big fan, the Hotel would be a dreaming place for me,
    and hey, She was a real big Scott's fan, i mean, She had different edition of
    the same book: "Great Gastby"!



     Why she decided to go
    to LA?

    I guess LA was in her plans at the beginning, just what she said on her
    "Tumblr" post. Maybe the reason was someone or simply just for fun, i
    mean, it's LA sounds great for me! Maybe 'cause im not from United States and
    just sounds nice... Beaches, Mountains, celebrity people, great nighttime...

    On the other hand, when i saw her Twitter account i've noticed she had 'Twitter
    friends' on LA, some of them are people she "faved" weeks earlier and
    they 'faved' her too. (It's a shame that her facebook page no longer exist
    because according some news there was pics about the travel in there)

    At this point, i need to be clear with something:

    i don't care if all this thing is about 
    "Wag the dog" maybe it is, but is a fact that girl is dead and
    i love the "Noir Novels", in fact i am working on another case: Starr
    Faithfull. So i really don't care those theories related with TB, Government,
    etc.

    Ok, now... For me this history is
    something like that:

    1. She is Bipolar

    Yes, is clear according the drugs in her prescription.In fact, being bipolar is not incapacitating, it's just uncomfortable, but it's
    all. You don't have hallucinations, you only think a lot and very fast in
    everything, mostly you're thinking about wasting your life or being
    improductive at the end. I know that because i'm bipolar, and its ok... I have
    a job, a life, fun, sadness.

    So i guess she didn't commit that kind of suicide, because it's a very complicated
    way for a bipolar passive girl who likes fashion, and for sure, it's a
    completly non aesthetic way for die.
    I
    guess she decided to trip alone and she had a route including LA, thats sounds
    like she was in a hipomaniac fase which is risky for a bipolar because we take
    a lot of danger choices even when we know are dangerous, and for us it's look
    normal. :)



    2. The elevator

    It’s so exciting for me to think about "the elevator game", but hey:
    that's not real (Besides i don't want to try). So the tape was altered in some
    way, and the other thing is we coulnd't know for sure if the girl in that tape
    was Elisa or just someone else who had a similar clothes.

    What if she was an actress wearing the same clothes they found on the water tank
    after Elisa's death?What if the tape was just a fake lead to create
    distraction?
    Maybe the murderer worked on it before or after her death because as we know the girl
    in that tape could be any asian girl. As they used to say: "this asian
    people, they look all the same for me" and i guess is the same for everyone
    who may watch this kind of tape with awful resolution: She is an asian girl
    with the same clothes found in the water tank, it's too easy to think she is
    Elisa.



    2.1. Are we sure these clothes are from her?

    I mean, maybe they (i think the murder was done at least for 2 person) put this
    clothes on an actress in the elevator and she looked like the character in
    "Dark Water" movie and she played some silly Korean movie’s game (The
    Elevator Game). Are we sure than Elisa is not dead for that moment?

    I know it's creepy to think someone could be so mean and sick, but we face it,
    sick people live in LA. Remember the case of Luka Magnotta for example. I don't
    know, too many people in LA is looking for something, too many sad and
    frustrated people obsessed with all kind of things about cinema, acting, being
    famous... On a very sick way. So, the girl in the elevator was Elisa or was
    just another asian girl (actress), looking like the girl on that movie because
    someone maybe paid her for that.

    I don't know, maybe is she (Elisa) on the tape... but if she wasn't, had her
    parents noticed?
    Hmmm
    on my opinion, for a fashion lover and a very "gooddressed" girl, she
    looks awful in that tape, even her hair...

    To be continued... :)

    ¡Saludos!








    Hello yourself, and welcome to the forum. 

    You raise an absolutely excellent question - how do we know the clothes found belong to Elisa? It's very true that Elisa was a fashionista, so it's rather strange that she's wondering around in essentially men's clothing. Some suggest that it's because she was fooling around / wearing her bedtime clothing, but it didn't seem like she was winding down for the night.

    Out of curiosity, where are you from? And how did you stumble across this thread?
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Hello everybody. I have no idea HOW the name of Elisa Lam came to my brain, but for the past days, and strangely enough it has just been 2 years since her body was found, I haven't been able to stop thinking about this case all day and night long.

    I just registered to come with my opinion after reading all I could.

    I must say also that I have had many nightmares about this story. I don't consider myself a "medium" or a "psychic" but I am a VERY sensitive person, so I will assume that my nightmares are from reading in bed. So here goes my thoughts, a mixed of what I have been dreaming and reading.

    I do think Elisa existed. I am, myself, a very private person. I have gone under a "stage name" for about 10 years, never using my real name, never posting a public picture of my face. I have had popular blogs for several years, again, never really revealing who I am, even though I write very personal stuff.

    I think that Elisa met someone online. That someone was somebody that worked in the Cecil Hotel. I can't find another reason WHY a woman traveling alone would stay in that hotel. Why aren't there more surveillance from the other days? I think that that person working there deleted it.

    I think that Elisa and that person got very close. Some kind of connection because of her blog, her depression, you name it. That person made Elisa stop taking her medicines for some reason. Maybe they both thought she would be better without? maybe they were in love and "he" thought he could cure her from her illness?

    Anyway, she stopped taking the medicines WHILE being in LA, and that made her very vulnerable.

    Then there is another person in my picture of what happened. That person had a close connection with "suspect 1" and he did not like what was going on.

    Now let me jump at the elevator scene. Elisa is NOT wearing her glasses. That is why she need to get really close to the panel, to see the numbers clearly. She then push the floor button and then the closing door button and waits for it to close. Her friend (Suspect 1) is, say from the reception, holding the door and he says "Elisa!".. she gets surprised and gets out of the elevator to see who is calling from her. Suspect 1 keeps joking and tell her that he can see her! Elisa NEVER looks up to the camera on the corner, it seems like she doesn't even know a camera is there. She moves to the side and then to the corner. Does she smile? to me it seems like she is smiling. She is not scared at all, that tells me she KNOWS the person that is talking to her.

    She goes out again. She doesn't understand where the voice is coming from, but for some reason she doesn't believe it is from the elevator, she never sees around the elevator, but she looks carefully outside. She is playful, somebody is playing a joke on her and she is playing back. 

    She then stays outside. And here comes suspect 2. She tells him that suspect 1 is talking to her. He tells her he is joking. Elisa put her hands on her head like "of course! how didn't I think of it?". They talk a little and she goes back to the elevator, kind of smiling, holds herself on the door thinking how silly she is and not completely ok because she is not taking her medication, so she has been a little light headed all the time.

    She goes back in to the elevator, again, she goes closer to the numbers to see properly. She pushes 4 as I can see. Can Suspect 2 have told her that she should do that, kind of as a code to get faster where she is going? or something "fixing" the doors not closing? anyway, Elisa tries the same sequence several times, it doesn't work and she comes out again to talk to suspect 2. He is standing all the time out of camera. And Elisa keeps a  distance ALL the time, even though it is obvious that she is talking to somebody hidden on the right side. Why the distance? can it be that he has a dog? a big dog? That will make ME keep a good distance. Can it be that the dog is barking at her? and she is trying to calm down the dog with the circular movement of her hands at the same time as she is explaining something to the Suspect 2? She then keeps explaining something to suspect 2, as her body keeps moving like she is talking.

    Suspect 2 tells her then to take the stairs. He waits until the doors close to follow her. I am assuming that the crime happens right after this (of course, it could have happened any time). Somehow, he convinces her to go up to the roof. Elisa is unaware of suspect 2 disliking her. He has a card to enter the roof top and there things go wrong.

    Suspect 1 lets the elevator go when he sees Elisa has left.

    I am not sure how and why, but I imagine the big dog chasing Elisa. She has nowhere to run, so she climbs to the tank and enters it. I am thinking the fear gives her an adrenalin kick that makes her able to climb AND lift the heavy lid. She is scared and doesn't say anything, waiting inside the tank. Suspect 2 gets the dog and don't see Elisa, or does know that she is inside the tank but doesn't care. He takes the dog and leaves. I don't know how full the tank is, but I can imagine it is not full enough for Elisa to reach the opening and get out. Her wet clothes are heavy, so she takes it off, hoping to float better, maybe be less heavy and manage to get out, but she can't.

    Suspect 1 and 2 meet. Here my theory doesn't have much hold, but say that suspect 1 doesn't really know what has happened to Elise. He sees her acting "silly" after his joke in the elevator, but he may or not know about suspect 2 and Elise going to the top. Suspect 2 goes to the top roof again looking for Elisa. He realizes or he already know she is inside the water tank. He takes a ladder and climbs to the opening. Elisa has been on the water for a few hours maybe, she is tired and cold. He tells her to reach his hand and when she does that, he lifts her up and cover her mouth and nose. I can imagine a big security guy, strong enough to lift her. She dies of a dry asphyxia when he covers her mouth and nose and he lets her fall into the tank and closes the lid.

    Suspect 1 of course notices Elisa is gone missing. Suspect 2 tells him "I told you so, she was wicked, don't say anything or people will link you to the disappearance" so both shut up. Any evidence of Elise, recordings and surveillance is deleted. Maybe some evidence from her room, like her phone, they make it disappear. And they just wait. Suspect 1 is terrified of police asking him, but there is not really any links to him. Suspect 2 knows there is nothing on him. 

    I think that suspect 2 has good connections with the police. That's why the investigation is SO sloppy, I mean, she is found in the roof top with ONLY access from a fire escape AND the workers cards and no one working there was questioned? also the autopsy is pretty sloppy, like someone saying: yeah, put whatever basic on, we won't investigate much further. And why did it took so long the report?

    well... I hope that you don't find my theories too dumb :-) it has been a pleasure to read you all and excuse my mediocre english!
    Welcome to the forums, and thanks for sharing that highly detailed perspective. I certainly can't reject the possibility of all that having happened as you describe it, and it would fill in some of the blanks regarding her peculiar security came behaviour, the tank, and so on. 

    I definitely share your opinion that someone must be in on this - the LAPD, local government, the hotel staff, local criminals, etc. If only we had a clue as to what might have happened between the elevator footage and her ending up in the tank, it might be easier to piece together. The "evidence" presented by the media and the LAPD seems to deliberately lack substance and context so that any sort of explanation they offer up will end up fitting what they show. The heavily edited security came footage they showed of the elevator still remains a massive red flag to me.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • MissMelindresMissMelindres Member
    edited February 2015
    I'm from Colombia and im here because searching on Google I found this thread... And you have a lot of interesting information. At the moment im writing some short Noir tales, so i like to read what other people think about some real crimes.

    Also... I was thinking about the new TV show: How to get away with murder and seems to me put a corp on a Water tank is a good and common way to do it, i mean, according to TV show.
  • Another question:

    If she was wearing Her bedtime clothing... Why they found sand on it?

    On my particular case, im not going to the beach dressing like that... It will be weird and ugly.
  • wisteria1234wisteria1234 Member, Permitted to post new threads
    edited February 2015
    Another question:

    If she was wearing Her bedtime clothing... Why they found sand on it?

    On my particular case, im not going to the beach dressing like that... It will be weird and ugly.
    I think those clothes were just her "stay indoors clothes". She was a fashion blogger but specifically drawn to masculine styles as you can see from her blog. A guy she liked once told her that she is not girly enough and too boyish. She is drawn to clean and crisp lines. Her Instagram shows somewhat masculine loafers and trousers.

    I do believe that was her in the elevator video. Police released a statement as to why no other footage of her was released. The elevator had the best shot of her face. They needed someone to come forward to say if they had seen her elsewhere because she no longer looked anything like her former self. If they had released her old photos, it wouldn't have helped the case. I'm assumimg her family/friends confirmed this. EL likely wasn't coping well with her mental illness for some time and it may have affected her appearance. Maybe she hadn't taken a selfie for some time and didn't bother to look her best every morning. But it might have just been her not wearing makeup that they were referring to and not her style having changed. We have no images of her "going out" attire. But illness aside, even celebrities caught without their makeup don't look like their airbrushed photos. Maybe EL only had photos of herself taken when she looked her absolute best which is not a fair comparison to a random video of her without her makeup in a run down hotel. Her family probably confirmed that EL hardly ever wore makeup like in the photos they had. You are told to wear no makeup for your driver's license photo since it's easy to change your makeup but you always look the same underneath without it. Ironically few of us can say we actually resemble our driver's license photo except when we're really sick.

    She hadn't told anyone she was going to LA so some people suspect she was secretly seeing someone there. But police have the rest of the video footage so who knows.

    I also question what was written on the postcard she mailed to her friend that "shocked" her. It probably was about someone she was meeting up with in LA.

    The sand is very mysterious. It's what's bugging everyone. You can find sand almost anywhere but the key is to match it since sand composition is different depending on where you find it. It doesn't look like there is a beach near the hotel. Maybe it was from a construction worker/site or a sandbox from a playground. Maybe an aquarium? Or could just be particles in the tank that made its way in through the cracks over time. I found out that all sorts of things end up in water tanks like wild animals like squirrels and condors so sand wouldn't be a problem.
  • wisteria1234wisteria1234 Member, Permitted to post new threads
    Oops. That bit about finding condors inside I think only applies to open air water tanks. However this article states that squirrels have been found o.o. Bacteria such as e-coli http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/27/nyregion/inside-citys-water-tanks-layers-of-neglect.html?_r=0 is not uncommonly found in rooftop water tanks which comes from animal feces. Here's another source confirming that: http://www.businessinsider.com/new-york-city-water-tanks-contamination-2014-1. Maybe people shouldn't be bathing in or drinking the water from there anyway. 
  • do we know WHERE the 54 missing seconds are taken from? I am really bad at seeing where it is edited the video, but if they are all together and a big chunk is missing from the beginning, middle or end... it would give some more insights?
  • MissMelindresMissMelindres Member
    edited February 2015
    I really dont care about the video tape, i mean, we can't know for sure when she disappeared.

    And, call me a freak, but i guess the murderer is between us. Maybe a narcisistic person. :)

    Hahaha it will be nice!
  • wisteria1234wisteria1234 Member, Permitted to post new threads
    edited February 2015
    do we know WHERE the 54 missing seconds are taken from? I am really bad at seeing where it is edited the video, but if they are all together and a big chunk is missing from the beginning, middle or end... it would give some more insights?
    I think it's possible that it's missing, but unless a professional confirms that, it's hard to say. Some people have argued that it's just the recorder automatically cutting out segments with no movement. It's also very hard to tell if they really pix-elated her mouth or if that was a temporary distortion because of the poor quality of the video. I saw a YouTube video showing one of the elevators was out of service @ 6:48  Maybe that was the elevator in the footage. Why was it out of service early in March? Was it already malfunctioning when the footage was taken? Were they still trying to figure out in March if the elevator had been tampered with? The halls in the hotel are so narrow and the bathrooms are shared. The doors look like particle board (thin). If anything happened, people on that floor should have heard something unless the rooms were unoccupied. 

    One other thing that people probably doubt is whether it was EL that posted on her blog that Mexican guys were stalking her. If it was her, then they are possible suspects. But if it was someone else, then it was a distraction. If her blog had been hacked, everything we see there is unreliable, which is not a pleasant thought.
  • wisteria1234wisteria1234 Member, Permitted to post new threads
    edited February 2015
    Did she take her contacts? People say she left her glasses behind, but if she had no contacts, I really question if she did. Would you travel alone especially without a way to see properly? 
    Were a majority of her Instagram photos deleted? They seem rather sparse for someone travelling here and there. Instagram is easy to access using your phone compared to a blog for whomever is in possession of it. A blog is just as easy to access without a password if you save it. It was posted on Tumblr Feb 27th that her phone went missing. To post about losing your phone you would need access to the net; autoposted or not. Did she have a tablet or use a cyber cafe?

    This discussion is becoming an addiction. I guess no one really exhausts their ideas. 


  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Did she take her contacts? People say she left her glasses behind, but if she had no contacts, I really question if she did. Would you travel alone especially without a way to see properly? 
    Were a majority of her Instagram photos deleted? They seem rather sparse for someone travelling here and there. Instagram is easy to access using your phone compared to a blog for whomever is in possession of it. A blog is just as easy to access without a password if you save it. It was posted on Tumblr Feb 27th that her phone went missing. To post about losing your phone you would need access to the net; autoposted or not. Did she have a tablet or use a cyber cafe?

    This discussion is becoming an addiction. I guess no one really exhausts their ideas. 


    Really good question. I noticed that on her blogs, many of her photo links no longer worked. I also noticed that on those blogs there were a total of zero "selfies", which I found peculiar, even for a shy introvert. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • wisteria1234wisteria1234 Member, Permitted to post new threads
    edited February 2015

    Is the water level in the tank low enough at any point for a person to undress themselves while inside? That's something I wonder. One of the guests heard a loud noise from the roof so whether that was a hatch slamming shut or her falling into a near empty tank is of question. If the water level inside is never low enough for a person to stand, they wouldn't be able to undress at least as thoroughly as she did. And her watch was taken off as well. It takes some dexterity to remove a watch while swimming in ten feet of water in a cramped enclosed space. But that may need some demonstrating. But if the water had been low I can see that happening. 

    To toss everything in including your watch before jumping in just confuses me. If she didn't want to be found, I would understand as she would not want to leave anything out for someone to see, but she looked so out of it in the elevator that I can't see how someone in her state would think as far as that. 

    If they could solve that other case involving the actress in Mexico City it might help, but it took them over a year to find her. If it is proven to be murder, it is definitely likely that EL was killed. 


    Actually now that you mention it, I could have sworn somewhere that guests heard a "loud thud" or something of the sort around when Elisa disappeared. 
    Here is a link with info about the guest who heard the noise: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2282050/Elisa-Lam-Hotel-guests-drank-water-contaminated-Canadian-tourists-body-weeks.html
    Staff last saw her Jan 31st. That night a racket was heard by a resident. The elevator video footage is dated Feb 1st the day she was supposed to check out. Checkout is usually by 11am at most hotels. The video date might be wrong to make it look like it happened in the morning. No one checked her room on the checkout day. Why? Video might have been filmed Jan 31st. It's likely she entered the tank at night when no one was awake except the elderly resident. The list of events is listed here: http://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/was-elisa-lam-murdered-or-the-victim-of-a-strange-accident-1.1164216#

    Did they publish why staff didn't check up on her for so long?
  • checked out the reviews about this place on tripadvisor and yelp .. seems like an 'ok' place...
    they have renamed it to 'Stay on Main'  btw 
  • wisteria1234wisteria1234 Member, Permitted to post new threads
    edited February 2015
    Someone posting on websleuths mentioned that the flooding that occurred might have been from something increasing water pressure. Sudden increasing volume in the tanks. The loud noise and flooding occured night of Jan 31st. Video is from Jan 1st. Pointing more and more to tampering.

    There was mention of a registered sex offender residing there.
  • wisteria1234wisteria1234 Member, Permitted to post new threads
    The offender is 65 years old though and weak looking so it's unlikely he was strong enough to do anything. http://www.homefacts.com/offender-detail/CA1869408332832/Alvin-Taylor.html#.VO6b7Etc7ds.

    No idea about the ages of other offenders living there though or if they've since moved out.

    EL's last visit to the bookstore was on January 31st.
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator

    Is the water level in the tank low enough at any point for a person to undress themselves while inside? That's something I wonder. One of the guests heard a loud noise from the roof so whether that was a hatch slamming shut or her falling into a near empty tank is of question. If the water level inside is never low enough for a person to stand, they wouldn't be able to undress at least as thoroughly as she did. And her watch was taken off as well. It takes some dexterity to remove a watch while swimming in ten feet of water in a cramped enclosed space. But that may need some demonstrating. But if the water had been low I can see that happening. 

    To toss everything in including your watch before jumping in just confuses me. If she didn't want to be found, I would understand as she would not want to leave anything out for someone to see, but she looked so out of it in the elevator that I can't see how someone in her state would think as far as that. 

    If they could solve that other case involving the actress in Mexico City it might help, but it took them over a year to find her. If it is proven to be murder, it is definitely likely that EL was killed. 


    Actually now that you mention it, I could have sworn somewhere that guests heard a "loud thud" or something of the sort around when Elisa disappeared. 


    Here is a link with info about the guest who heard the noise: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2282050/Elisa-Lam-Hotel-guests-drank-water-contaminated-Canadian-tourists-body-weeks.html
    Staff last saw her Jan 31st. That night a racket was heard by a resident. The elevator video footage is dated Feb 1st the day she was supposed to check out. Checkout is usually by 11am at most hotels. The video date might be wrong to make it look like it happened in the morning. No one checked her room on the checkout day. Why? Video might have been filmed Jan 31st. It's likely she entered the tank at night when no one was awake except the elderly resident. The list of events is listed here: http://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/was-elisa-lam-murdered-or-the-victim-of-a-strange-accident-1.1164216#

    Did they publish why staff didn't check up on her for so long?
    That's precisely what I was going to ask myself.

    The two interesting sentence from the Daily Mail article:

    "Bernard Diaz, 89, who has lived at the Cecil for 32 years, told the LA Times that he heard a 'tremendous' racket on his floor above him the night Lam disappeared.
    He said the floor also experience flooding that night."

    One would think staff would definitely check those events out promptly and try to determine what was going on. If the flooding was from a room, didn't anyone bother to check out the reason? Peculiar. 
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    checked out the reviews about this place on tripadvisor and yelp .. seems like an 'ok' place...
    they have renamed it to 'Stay on Main'  btw 
    Indeed. "Stay on Main... forever".
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    The offender is 65 years old though and weak looking so it's unlikely he was strong enough to do anything. http://www.homefacts.com/offender-detail/CA1869408332832/Alvin-Taylor.html#.VO6b7Etc7ds.

    No idea about the ages of other offenders living there though or if they've since moved out.

    EL's last visit to the bookstore was on January 31st.
    Elisa mustn't have researched very well. That place seems ultra shady from the get go. Criminal activity, sell offenders living there, etc. A simple Internet search might have revealed much about the place.
    -------------------
    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • Guys one info I got from reading all reviews of cecil is that the bathrooms are down the hall.. no private bathrooms!!!
  • wisteria1234wisteria1234 Member, Permitted to post new threads
    edited February 2015
    Guys one info I got from reading all reviews of cecil is that the bathrooms are down the hall.. no private bathrooms!!!
    They say you can get private bathroom if you ask for one. It costs more though. Are you thinking of going Marvin? Maybe you can do some sleuthing! But bring a taser or something if you're going. And don't drink at the bar on the eighth floor.
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