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Did Winston Churchill kill 4 million Indians?


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"...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)

Comments

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    Maybe if the West treated the rest of the world with a bit more respect and thoughtfulness and kindness, the rest of the world wouldn't constantly plot so negatively towards it
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    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
  • GrumpyGuy_MOD_GrumpyGuy_MOD_ Moderator
    edited March 1
    Sadly, the West was constructed by royals, merchants and politicians who were educated by academics who supported and contributed to scientific racism.  Western white people were seen as not only culturally, but biologically superior to everyone else.  This was just common knowledge for a period of several centuries, if not longer, in the same way that "paper is flammable" is common knowledge to us.  In fact, it's still widely believed - I think only a portion of the most recent generations are starting to question that old system of thinking.

    One example I see often is when white (usually English-speaking) people share their friendship with a non-western person, but feel obligated to qualify that friendship with reassurances that the friend is "articulate" and "intelligent" and "thoughtful.  I think the general expectation remains that any non-Western person is probably operating at a lower level of intelligence by default.  Even if it isn't believed, the belief is assumed and the qualifications are made nonetheless. 

    The entire Age of Sail, which lasted several hundred years, was fueled by the popular belief that Western people had a God-given "right" to locate, appropriate and exploit all of the world's riches, as well as a God-given "command" to force-convert anyone and everyone who didn't believe in their brand of Christianity.

    From what I see, I have no reason to believe that the "Age of Sail" ever truly ended.  We just replaced sailing ships and year-long voyages with cargo ships, trucks, trains and aircraft.  We replaced religious evangelism (although not completely) with cultural evangelism.

    The non-Western world may consist of numerous sovereign nations, but how many of them truly exist independently of Western influence?  How many countries have successfully resisted the spread of capitalism?  How many countries only "exist" because some Western power decided to grant them independence after decades or centuries of ownership?

    It's no surprise to me that the West treats the rest of the world with very little respect, thoughtfulness and kindness.  They still believe they deserve to be in charge, and that everyone else only has what they have now because of the grace of their generosity.

    I'm not confident that Western countries will ever truly abandon that behaviour of their own will.  Unless they are given the equivalent of a spanking by the rest of the world, I see this behaviour persisting long after I have died.
    People in this world look at things mistakenly, and think that what they do not understand must be the void. This is not the true void. It is bewilderment.
    - Miyamoto Musashi, The Book of Five Rings
  • tazweisstazweiss Member, Permitted to post new threads

    The "white", western world has achieved what it has because we are open to new ideas and ways of thinking.  Even though we may resist for a time, our curiosity always wins out.  Most other cultures operate on the belief that they are good enough as they are and ingrain that attitude into their children and so they failed to progress without a push from the "white", western world.  It is why they have to rely on western technology.

    *Disclaimer* - These aren't my thoughts.  They are the views of a well respected Saudi Arabian, Muslim professor.

    But it is food for thought.

    If the politicians treat people this poorly when they're armed to the teeth,

    just imagine what they'll be willing to do once they've disarmed everyone.

  • Matt_ADMIN_Matt_ADMIN_ Administrator
    edited March 1
    What that man says is interesting, but I'm not entirely sure if curiosity alone led the way.

    Change in the West seems to come more as a result of convulsions (some of which haven't been that peaceful), rather than people sitting around a picnic cloth saying: "Hey, maybe it's not such a good idea to own and trade black people anymore?"; or, "I have an idea: let's let a parliament of individuals run the levers of government rather than the King and his family"; or my favourite: "Maybe we should apply technology to universal benefit so that there's not a situation in which a small amount of people own all the capital, and the rest of the people are reduced to pseudo-slavery through the distribution of a minimum amount of sustenance labour value?"

    I suppose I could consider technology as a changing factor as well, but if I wonder where that technology comes from, there's a pattern that develops. If there's a pile of lego blocks sitting in the middle of a room full of people, and one person so happens to have a baseball bat, he'll probably get exclusive use of the lego bricks and be the only person allowed to build anything with them. I wonder what the rest of the world could achieve if it were allowed to operate on its own and share in the lego pile.

    And just one last thought: that fellow seems to have forgotten the magnificence of his own history. Optics, advanced mathematics, medicine, and a huge array of other foundational sciences all came from somewhere in Asia. It doesn't seem like Asians were sitting around passively, resistant to change - to me, at least.

    Most cultures in the world use their advancements to actually advance themselves, whereas in the West, practically all advancements are poured into acquiring some sort of physical upperhand, or as a means to acquire more means, rather than an end. Most other cultures don't possess this sort of philosophical outlook, and so they go into a period of hibernation.

    I wonder if these cultures are really dependent on Western technology rather than addicted, since I've never had the opportunity to see what they can accomplish absent all the outside influences, if not outright erasure of their systems. The fact that violence is often required to keep the "weeds of indigenous culture" from springing up again leads me to believe that under natural circumstances, societies outside of the West would probably go back to their default states - and probably be just fine with that.

    [Edited so that I'm not on the receiving end of a drone strike.]
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    "...Say, 'GOD is sufficient for me.' In Him the trusters shall trust." (Quran 39:38)
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